Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 11:16:51 AM)

WTF!   WTF  WTF

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/01/supreme-court-miranda-rul_n_596012.html

It has not hit Alex yet.  I will keep you posted.




Real0ne -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 11:32:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

WTF!   WTF  WTF

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/01/supreme-court-miranda-rul_n_596012.html

It has not hit Alex yet.  I will keep you posted.




thats because its commercial,

you know the ole saying ignorance of the law is no excuse!

Now have you ever been in a law library?

what is it up to now?  600,000 laws? 


ignorance of the law is no excuse!




pahunkboy -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 11:36:14 AM)

Bull shit.   we now have secret laws.




Arpig -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 1:13:26 PM)

Bullshit, nothing has been turned upside down, a suspect merely has to actively invoke their right to remain silent to end an interrogation, just as they have to actively invoke their right to a lawyer or against self-incrimination. Its a minor clarification that actually gives a suspect more power...they can now end an interrogation any time they wish by either invoking their right to remain silent or their right to have a lawyer present.
Your paranoia is boundless and breathtaking in its idiocy.




pahunkboy -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 1:18:05 PM)

Dude-  requiring someone to talk- how is that SILENT?


It is YOU that is deluded. 




Arpig -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 1:33:25 PM)

Don't be a bigger idiot than you usually are...its no different than taking the 5th or demanding a lawyer. What it does is allow the police to interrogate a suspect until the suspect puts an end to the interrogation by either demanding a lawyer or explicitly stating he/she is exercising their right to remain silent. That is ALL it does. The police previously could keep hammering at a suspect until the suspect "lawyered up", now they have to stop when the suspect tells them he won't answer any questions...seems to me that it gives some meat to the right that wasn't there before. 




pahunkboy -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 1:35:00 PM)

Then you have never been questioned- I presume.

Well I have.

..and loose lips sink ships.

And that is not crazy talk- any lawyer will tell you that.  Someone agree with me.   because this poster is so wrong.




Arpig -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 1:39:19 PM)

Yes I have been questioned, in fact the first thing the officer doing the questioning said to me was "Don't say a thing to me till you speak to a lawyer", then he told me the charges and asked if I wanted to make a statement, which I declined, he then asked me if I wanted to speak to a lawyer, which I said I did...a little while later I was taken to a phone and allowed to contact a lawyer...all very civilised, but yes I had to actively decline to make a statement.




pahunkboy -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 1:41:27 PM)

Questioning in the US is more insidious. You may or may not realize you are being questioned and to what end.

Keep in mind too we now have "enhanced enteregation".  I find this ruling chilling.  




Jeffff -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 1:45:04 PM)

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you. Do you understand these rights as they have been read to you?



What is so hard to understand here?




pahunkboy -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 1:50:08 PM)

Jefff-  cops may or may not be required to state the Miranda warning.  as that rule has changed too.




pahunkboy -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 1:52:03 PM)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=i3Y&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=Miranda+warning++officer.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=




Arpig -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 1:53:32 PM)

quote:

I find this ruling chilling.
OK, just what is chilling about it. According to the linked article, unless I am completely misunderstanding it, it gives the detainee the power to stop an interrogation by simply stating that they refuse to answer any questions. What about that do you find "chilling".

And how the hell could you not realise you are being questioned....cops arrest you and take you to the station and sit you down and start asking you shit.....dude you are being questioned.




pahunkboy -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 1:55:29 PM)

And how the hell could you not realise you are being questioned./snip

LOL.    aye aye aye.    Someone help me out here.




Arpig -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 2:15:37 PM)

You don't need any help, just what do you find "chilling" about the ruling?




mnottertail -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 2:15:58 PM)

even if you are totally innocent of anything, your first move should be to say you want a mouthpiece and you aint got nothing to say.  they aint talking to you to pin innocence on you................period................




Arpig -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 2:17:09 PM)

quote:

even if you are totally innocent of anything, your first move should be to say you want a mouthpiece and you aint got nothing to say. they aint talking to you to pin innocence on you................period................
EXACTAMUNDO!!




laurell3 -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 2:23:13 PM)

Pa, the ruling really isn't all that new or substantial, there are several cases similar, it only confirms a factual situation in which officers continued to question. The guy confessed, he's a boob. Don't confess, ask for an attorney, it's really not new or earthshattering at all.




pahunkboy -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 2:27:00 PM)

WRONG.

This now is precedent.

You may not be silent.




rulemylife -> RE: Miranda TURNEd UPSIDE DOWN! (6/1/2010 2:32:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Bullshit, nothing has been turned upside down, a suspect merely has to actively invoke their right to remain silent to end an interrogation, just as they have to actively invoke their right to a lawyer or against self-incrimination. Its a minor clarification that actually gives a suspect more power...they can now end an interrogation any time they wish by either invoking their right to remain silent or their right to have a lawyer present.
Your paranoia is boundless and breathtaking in its idiocy.



Pahunk is right.  It is a big change and comes on the heels of several other rulings that weaken Miranda.

Justice Sotomayor's dissent sums it up:


High court: Suspects must directly invoke right to remain silent


In a sharp dissent, Justice Sonia Sotomayor called the court's ruling a "major retreat" from protections against self-incrimination guaranteed by the original Miranda ruling.

"Criminal suspects must now unambiguously invoke their right to remain silent -- which counterintuitively requires them to speak," she said. "At the same time, suspects will be legally presumed to have waived their rights even if they have given no clear expression of their intent to do so.

Those results, in my view, find no basis in Miranda or our subsequent cases and are inconsistent with the fair-trial principles on which those precedents are grounded."

Sotomayor said the Thompkins ruling "turns Miranda upside down." Justices John Paul Stevens, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer backed her conclusions.








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