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RE: Liberal Values - 6/2/2010 5:26:54 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Its funny you should say that THB.............. because I believe it has more than a grain of truth in it to say that conservative values dont require that much thought because they dont seek to change anything.

The only thinking required is to formulate ways to resist the "evil liberals" with their "progressive ideas", and to locate a new scapegoat every now and then on which to pin the failure of conservative values to meet the needs of the majority - of course that "evil liberals" was ever a good choice for this purpose but was only quite recently adopted is interesting alongside the growth in "evil liberal progressive ideas" in the population at large that put other favourites out of reach, apart from "socialists" et al of course with whom liberals may be readily conflated through the promotion of redundant, fearful memories of the cold war at every opportunity.

Liberal values meanwhile do require a great deal of thought and consideration in the round before being implemented as policy. Whilst the aim is to right some injustice or other, open some opportunity or other to more than a select few or improve the general conditions, great consideration must be exercised into not only whether the proposed policy will have the desired effects but also into the effects in other areas, including believe it or not, the effects on wealth generation and security on which all else depends.

Elisabella earlier proposed that conservative values correspond to Darwinism whilst liberal values correspond to idealism. I'm not sure how far I'd agree with that but it has some truth to it in my opinion. The only political question then remaining is whether we truly wish to live in a world where we concede to our brute nature or whether we should prefer to elevate ourselves above that to fulfil our whole potential as a species by using the mind we are given to aim for the ideal? "We do not choose to do this and the other things because they are easy, but because they are hard" as someone once said.

E

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Liberal Values - 6/2/2010 5:42:54 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		Do you believe that someone who holds conservative views on one issue will automatically hold conservative views on all issues?

quote:

The only thinking required is to formulate ways to resist the "evil liberals" with their "progressive ideas", and to locate a new scapegoat every now and then on which to pin the failure of conservative values to meet the needs of the majority - of course that "evil liberals" was ever a good choice for this purpose but was only quite recently adopted is interesting alongside the growth in "evil liberal progressive ideas" in the population at large that put other favourites out of reach, apart from "socialists" et al of course with whom liberals may be readily conflated through the promotion of redundant, fearful memories of the cold war at every opportunity.


Do the conservative you hang with actually talk this way? Evil liberal? That would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I noticed you didn't feel the need to add "evil cons" to this to make your point. I guess that's because liberals are so much more evolved.

quote:

Liberal values meanwhile do require a great deal of thought and consideration in the round before being implemented as policy. Whilst the aim is to right some injustice or other, open some opportunity or other to more than a select few or improve the general conditions, great consideration must be exercised into not only whether the proposed policy will have the desired effects but also into the effects in other areas, including believe it or not, the effects on wealth generation and security on which all else depends.



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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Liberal Values - 6/2/2010 6:01:59 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		And that is a problem for conservatives THB, and also a problem generally with politics dont you feel? "The party line" must be defended and upheld by all, however awkward or illogical. We no longer have a spectrum of people with broadly similar outlooks in politics forming around a party, but strict creeds variance from which invites disaster.

The number of times that phrases such as "evil liberal" (and worse) are used here is notable, as are the lack of any form of correction or comment by those conservatives here who might consider such phrases to be beyond the pale. This is very illustrative of the point, for I would venture any conservative who sought to correct such excesses should be ill regarded as a traitor to the cause, going soft on ideological commitment to the party line.

Are liberals more evolved? I dont think so. What I do believe though is that as educational level increases the more likely it is that people should form liberal identities as long as they dont come from or aspire to the kind of financial background that predisposes against anyone else joining the club.

E

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Liberal Values - 6/2/2010 6:08:21 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

And that is a problem for conservatives THB, and also a problem generally with politics dont you feel? "The party line" must be defended and upheld by all, however awkward or illogical. We no longer have a spectrum of people with broadly similar outlooks in politics forming around a party, but strict creeds variance from which invites disaster.
Have I ever said "the party line must be defended"? Nope, didn't think so. I also don't know anyone who has. Well maybe cucky, but I don't count the loons.


The number of times that phrases such as "evil liberal" (and worse) are used here is notable, as are the lack of any form of correction or comment by those conservatives here who might consider such phrases to be beyond the pale. This is very illustrative of the point, for I would venture any conservative who sought to correct such excesses should be ill regarded as a traitor to the cause, going soft on ideological commitment to the party line.
Yes it does pop up from time to time, as does "ignorant conservative" and other assorted niceties. I have also seen people on both sides slapping them down. In fact I have jumped on a few myself although I don't remember anyone calling me a traitor because of it.


Are liberals more evolved? I dont think so. What I do believe though is that as educational level increases the more likely it is that people should form liberal identities as long as they dont come from or aspire to the kind of financial background that predisposes against anyone else joining the club.
Possibly, but I can say the more I learn about the world, the more I lean to the right, not the left.

E


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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Liberal Values - 6/2/2010 6:43:34 AM   
realcoolhand


Posts: 261
Joined: 3/22/2009
Status: offline 		Given that conservatism is about preserving what is, and what "is" is both known and certain, conservatism DOES tend to be naturally programmatic and tends to require less imagination than progressivism.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Liberal Values - 6/2/2010 7:01:08 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


"Liberal values" isn't an oxymoron. It's just a big lie, quickly discarded and forgotten when they become inconvenient. They are talking points. Nothing more.

LadyE, get over yourself.



Dick are you going to make a point or just make noise.
Saying something is a lie is quite different than pointing out specifically what that lie is.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Liberal Values - 6/2/2010 7:03:32 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: realcoolhand

This is the thread where self-identified conservatives on CM compete by quipping about how "liberal values" is an oxymoron to win themselves a couple of new assholes courtesy of the self-identified liberals on CM. And . . . GO!



Real cool, do you mean "Liberal" values or "Leftist" values?
There is a big differance!


Popeye...they mean the ONLY CORRECT values as seen and understood by the enlightened.

Gee I wish I was as smart as they

Butch


Are you just going to snark or would it be possible for you to form a cogent thought and answer the op?

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Liberal Values - 6/2/2010 7:09:41 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I think we have enough of the right vs left bullshit on these forums without encouraging it.


No one is encourgaing left vs. right bullshit. What is being asked is how do you see it divorced from the rhetoric and reduced to facts...
kinda like this assinine line:


quote:

Well of course not, everyone knows conservatives are just a bunch of ignorant folk. Thank god we have the supergenious liberals to keep us in line.



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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Liberal Values - 6/2/2010 7:34:47 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		Do you believe that someone who holds conservative views on one issue will automatically hold conservative views on all issues?

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Liberal Values - 6/2/2010 7:52:46 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		No I don't. I have some views that are not as left as others, and have even found myself agreeing with conservatives at times, and even voted for conservatives in the past when I felt their platform would better suit our needs.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Liberal Values - 6/2/2010 8:20:25 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: realcoolhand

This is the thread where self-identified conservatives on CM compete by quipping about how "liberal values" is an oxymoron to win themselves a couple of new assholes courtesy of the self-identified liberals on CM. And . . . GO!



Real cool, do you mean "Liberal" values or "Leftist" values?
There is a big differance!

I'll tell them what that would be.

Liberal values are that govt. and economy should act in the interest of society as a whole, just not so much...for the investors only.

Liberal values have that wealth be divided in a free market by your labor, not divided among the leveraged paper-trader, i.e. speculators.

Leftists say they believe that too but once in power it has govt. actually, in fact, for real...take over businesses to 're-divide' the wealth to the people...but divide it amongst the loyal.

Leftist govts. are no different than rightest govt. they represent the same ideas but with a different method to take over govt. and their own set of benefactors in their theft.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 6/2/2010 8:23:58 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Liberal Values - 6/3/2010 8:44:17 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


Gee I wish I was as smart as they

Butch


So do those of us who are burdened by your purile posts

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Liberal Values - 6/3/2010 11:28:54 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


Gee I wish I was as smart as they

Butch


So do those of us who are burdened by your purile posts


Gee.  "purile".  I learned a new word. 

What does it mean, Thompson?

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Liberal Values - 6/3/2010 11:48:18 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


Gee I wish I was as smart as they

Butch


So do those of us who are burdened by your purile posts


Gee.  "purile".  I learned a new word. 

What does it mean, Thompson?

Firm



Perhaps it means that you would rather discuss spelling rather than substance.
Or...
perhaps it means...
Hoydenistic
1) Utterly stupid
2) Purile, simple, and dull
3) Dumb as shit

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=purile

Please choose the one that you feel fits you best.


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Liberal Values - 6/3/2010 12:11:31 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


Gee I wish I was as smart as they

Butch


So do those of us who are burdened by your purile posts


Gee.  "purile".  I learned a new word. 

What does it mean, Thompson?

Firm



Perhaps it means that you would rather discuss spelling rather than substance.
Or...
perhaps it means...
Hoydenistic
1) Utterly stupid
2) Purile, simple, and dull
3) Dumb as shit

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=purile

Please choose the one that you feel fits you best.




You've discussed substance!? 

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Liberal Values - 6/3/2010 1:12:38 PM   
realcoolhand


Posts: 261
Joined: 3/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


Gee.  "purile".  I learned a new word. 




Good; words are significant of ideas, that is, if you can say it, you can think it. If you can't say it, it's because you haven't thought it. Now that you know a new word, maybe you can think a little more before you speak.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Liberal Values - 6/3/2010 1:15:48 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Its funny you should say that THB.............. because I believe it has more than a grain of truth in it to say that conservative values dont require that much thought because they dont seek to change anything.

Except to lower taxes, with no thought as to how to pay for those cuts.

Or worse yet, the continued belief that they pay for themselves, despite the looming deficits they cause.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/3/2010 1:16:48 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Liberal Values - 6/3/2010 1:21:16 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


Gee I wish I was as smart as they

Butch


So do those of us who are burdened by your purile posts


Gee.  "purile".  I learned a new word. 

What does it mean, Thompson?

Firm



Perhaps it means that you would rather discuss spelling rather than substance.
Or...
perhaps it means...
Hoydenistic
1) Utterly stupid
2) Purile, simple, and dull
3) Dumb as shit

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=purile

Please choose the one that you feel fits you best.




You've discussed substance!? 

Firm




The substance here is which of the two definitions do you feel fits you best.
I must admit I am still undecided so I have asked for your opinion since only you would know for sure.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Liberal Values - 6/3/2010 1:26:12 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Its funny you should say that THB.............. because I believe it has more than a grain of truth in it to say that conservative values dont require that much thought because they dont seek to change anything.

Except to lower taxes, with no thought as to how to pay for those cuts.

Or worse yet, the continued belief that they pay for themselves, despite the looming deficits they cause.

Why is it that anyone with a three digit IQ can see it and those in power can't.
Or...
Is it that they do not care since they will do as they please and the voice of reason is lost behind the sound of the cash register ringing for their friends.






(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Liberal Values - 6/3/2010 1:28:02 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I explained that in other threads.

It works well--for the leaders at the top. The rest is moralistic rhetoric.

Oops. There's that word.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 60
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