RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 9:57:55 AM)

quote:

The intelligence Quotient, the I.Q. since it's introduction in 1909 as a standard method of measuring intelligence has been used and abused by so many to further their agendas, but aside from it's use in the pseudo science of eugenics which caused so much damge to society, it appears the IQ of a person might reveal some interesting facts.

When I was a child, it was used for tracking, i.e., putting children of approximately similar ability to learn together in each classroom.

Did it work? Yes and no. Unfortunately, it was replaced by the "self-esteem" fantasy used ever since, a model that definitely does not work.




Moonhead -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 9:58:58 AM)

It isn't even close to Murphy's law. Sorry, but you're talking out of your arse again.




Musicmystery -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 10:04:29 AM)

quote:

Educations end goal is to present known quantifiable facts.

I'd dispute this. General knowledge is important, yes, but not the end goal.

Among the reason college graduates are preferred, for example, is the presumption they will come with critical thinking skills, research ability, comprehension of new ideas, and the ability to lay out reasoned and supported positions on those ideas.




Musicmystery -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 10:10:29 AM)

quote:

My own IQ is very low, yet I am a supergenius.


Actually, that's a supernarcissist.




Rule -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 10:14:51 AM)

lol




Musicmystery -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 10:37:22 AM)

quote:

Astrology was once taken seriously but has since been utterly debunked - yet many still take great interest for the entertainment value. IQ shall, I am sure, be similarly relegated and regarded in the future.

The difference, though, is that IQ measurement itself is not the problem, but rather its interpretation and use.

It does provide a measurement of what one has learned and how well one can address a test on that material relative to others.

With flaws, yes, but not an invented casual link, as in astrology.





InvisibleBlack -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 10:43:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

How are you a supergenius with a low IQ? A genius is defined as somebody with an IQ of over 140, after all.


Wile E. Coyote was a supergenius, too. Maybe there's another definition of "supergenius". [;)]




Musicmystery -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 10:52:52 AM)

"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."

--Elbert Hubbard




Real0ne -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 12:22:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Educations end goal is to present known quantifiable facts.

I'd dispute this. General knowledge is important, yes, but not the end goal.

Among the reason college graduates are preferred, for example, is the presumption they will come with critical thinking skills, research ability, comprehension of new ideas, and the ability to lay out reasoned and supported positions on those ideas.




Musicmystery -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 12:26:07 PM)

Those who demonstrate otherwise can easily be left unhired or let go.

Not all goals are met.




Termyn8or -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 12:55:09 PM)

FR

It's been said that religion is the opiate of the people. It was not said by a stupid person so, momentarily at least let's take that angle.

Now I've long held that most of the most important learning in one's life comes in the early years, that is when they learn how to learn in a sense. Now very few people go around giving opiates to kids, but if religious dogma is indeed in a similar bag, what differs ? I don't think many will argue against the assertion that opiates make one think slower, especially in higher quantities, therfore logically would learn more slowly. Opiates or any intoxicant seems to have this effect, and I believe similarities exist in religious dogma. So is it the chcken or the egg ?

Now to get a bit more into the thick. I read studies that indicated that certain components of brain waves were suppressed when one smokes pot for example. Having a memory, I recalled this when they did a similar study on people watching TV, it had a very similar effect. Where does that leave us, can we conclude anything ?

But there is one thing in common, either the influence of a relious dogma or a drug of abuse seems to remove the user's impetus to think and reason, and in fact sometimes adults who imbibe responsibly will cite this as a reason for using the intoxicant, but if the influence is religion they insist that they are more enlightened because of it. Who is lying to themselves then ?

But in all, those who abuse intoxicants are frequently of lower intelligence. Societally based evidence is abound. I think this will be found true of other "sociopaths" except for the rare exception. In fact highly intelligent sociopaths get away with more for longer on average. Unfortunately there are not going to be much statistics available on this as probably some of them are never caught. Remember the ones society labels as sociopaths are the ones who got caught. Does this perhaps indicate that they were not smart enough to get away with it ? I think it quite possible.

But what is intelligence really ? Amsel (Maher) Rothchild was an engineer and a ficancial genius, but in person was he an idiot, somewhat like a savant ? We will never know. What was the IQ of the Rain Man ? (played in a movie by Dustin Hoffman I think). He could do complex math in his head like lightning, and tell you the day of the week on any date back to hundreds of years before he was born. But he thought a loaf of bread cost a hundred bucks and a new car cost a hundred bucks. How the hell do you measure that ?

And that indeed has been a topic about IQ tests for some time now. Some claim that they were racially biased, but were they ? They most certainly were biased in some way, but were they biased the right way. Come on it is a test, and being an IQ test it must of course be biased against the less intelligent. But just how accurate can they shoot that crap roll ? That subject has been discussed ad nauseum.

Perhaps if the idea is to pigeonhole people, we need more pigeonholes. When I took the ACT battery I scored on the 99th percentile in mechanical reasoning, which meant the there were very few people in the country smarter than I IN THAT SUBJECT. I also scored on the 2nd percentile in spelling. That means I was as dumb as a box of rocks IN THAT SUBJECT.

In that context, take the case of a mason. I saw the books, there is quite a bit of learning involved for those so impelled. But I don't need to know how to build a triple lead arch over a doorway anymore than a mason needs to know how an insulated gate field effect transistor works, or it characterisics really. I go to the grocery to go fishing, while others can run a trout line. Who is smarter ? Let's boil it down a bit to who is dependant upon the modern system/economy/whatever to get fish ?

Really if we are to consider one's level of valuable knowledge as a guage of intelligence, who is it that determines what is valuable and what is not ? You tell me.

T




Musicmystery -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 12:58:43 PM)

quote:

Really if we are to consider one's level of valuable knowledge as a guage of intelligence, who is it that determines what is valuable and what is not ? You tell me.

I'm not disagreeing.

What I disputed what that IQ tests measure nothing, the comparison to astrology. They may not measure what people think they do, and they may not measure it well, and the measurement may not mean what they think it does, but it does indeed measure what one has learned within its context.

That's why criticism usually starts with that context.





pyroaquatic -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 1:04:18 PM)

It is difficult for me to relate to people because of my intelligence. Some find me threatening while others who have no desire to learn anything run in the opposite direction.

While I did score high on multiple tests I also have a problem with this particular metric. It says nothing for Emotional or Spiritual Quotients. These tests are also geared for particular patterns of thinking relative to the country that procures the tests.

I will settle for Awareness.

-----

Everyone has a moment of genius in my opinion. It takes sweat and effort to produce massive amounts of moments consistently. On the other end of the poking stick my intellect has something to do with my disorder. I think way too fast.

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I do believe in God, Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Science, Reason, Logic, Ethics, Energy and all of the other emergent manifestations of the universe. We are nothing short of a miracle.
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I do not believe in people standing on their soapbox telling others they should live like X, Y, and Z so they may receive a holy 'Get out of Hell for Free' card.

I do not believe that there is only one sacred spot that few have access to. All of the fibers and molecules are sacred and equally as important.
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Love and your being will overcome death literally through your genes and memes.






SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 1:17:47 PM)

I thought IQ was a measure of how willing you are to buy an intelligence certificate from the internet.

q is to d as i is to !




Musicmystery -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 1:21:40 PM)

No, that's GQ (Gullibility Quotient).




Moonhead -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 2:12:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
It's been said that religion is the opiate of the people. It was not said by a stupid person so, momentarily at least let's take that angle.

As a matter of fact, it was Karl Marx who said that. I didn't think you'd have a lot of time for him. Did you know that was who you were quoting?




Termyn8or -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/3/2010 10:39:55 PM)

Does that invalidate what he said ?

T




Moonhead -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/4/2010 5:20:56 AM)

For people on your side of the fence, nothing he has to say is valid in the first place. I thought that was a given.




Termyn8or -> RE: The intelligence Quotient and it's uses ? (6/4/2010 8:49:49 AM)

That's what I mean by "Throwing the baby out with the bathwater", a common mistake.

T




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