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RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 8:42:09 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

No this is not about me. I only used myself as an example about bdsm activities. I was only pointing out that contact play is a small part of the overall bdsm experience. I am not presuming either that most do not engage in contact play; only that most BDSM activites in general do not involve contact play. Yes some people do engage in contact play and some don't but it is still far reaching to believe that most of WIITWD is illegal. SOME yes. MOST no.
 
And on the contrary. I probably live in one of the most restricted areas in the country. Small town Mississippi. No groups or clubs within a hundred miles. I haven't even met any other kinksters in my own city (last week, I met two that lived just a few miles away). One thing I do know for a fact is that cops in this area do run across lifestylers in some of the calls they answer to residences and no lifestyle related arrests have ever been made in this area. So maybe we are a bit more legally progressive than we are socially. And I do understand not everyone lives in progressive areas. That is why I keep emphasizing get to know your laws.


Now it's down to the word MOST in the context of WIITWD? You agree that contact play is illegal in most states and that consent is not the deciding factor as far as the written law goes?

It may appear I'm attempting to be snarky here, I am not. I have concern for anyone that comes on here and minimizes the risks and mistates the law. This is not my first go around on threads like this. Believe me it isn't personal.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to LadyCimarron)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 8:50:18 AM   
LittleBroken


Posts: 207
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan

LB also part of your problem is being in Austrailia where the courts as lax on Violence toward women in the first place.

I only wish to say that I am amazed by your strength and by your ability to be as open as you are.

You are something special, I believe that.

QSM


Thank you AQSM.

This happened a few years back and I'm pleased to say my procedures have been very successful.
To look at my bare back view you wouldn't know what had happened.
This has really helped me move on mentally.

The things and the lasting ramifications of what happened at Christmas will dog me until the day I die or until someone finds a cure for HSV.

Crying for the Stars and the Moon won't cure me and won't make me acceptable to my ex master.

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 8:53:40 AM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline 		Well that can happen, however not all Dom's see things like Herpes as a Death Sentence. They are manageable and should have little bearing on your ability to be a good submissive.

Take solace in that there are Dominants who would accept you as you are. Breaks, Bumps, Baggage and all.

QSM

_____________________________

Guy Stud =Vs= Girl Slut ~~ Debate ENDED!

"If a Key opens many locks, then it is a Master Key, If a Lock is opened by lots of keys, then it is a Shitty Lock"

(in reply to LittleBroken)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 8:58:22 AM   
DommeKeliDallas


Posts: 311
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleBroken

I admit I have engaged in risky play and stepped into scenes with Doms who didn't have references and didn't engage an observer.

I've paid for my stupidity with being left hanging like a side of beef from a tripod with weeping welts on my back from a single tail.
I have paid for my mistakes with extensive cosmetic and dermatological procedures to help remove the lasting physical reminders.

Do I blame others for my poor choices...NO, I don't.
Some of us have to learn everything the hard way.


broken,
I am profoundly sorry for what happened to you...wow.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Please be careful out there. 

(in reply to LittleBroken)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 9:06:52 AM   
LadyCimarron


Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline 		I am sure it is not personal, neither is it personal on my part. I am sure most here do not under estimate the legal ramifications of what they do in the lifestyle. If anything I think most people over estimate it and live in unwarranted fear that they will be arrested for it when in fact it is very rare that it ever happens.

The word MOST is what it was always about. I stated in my first post:

"I often see threads where a poster will state that most of WIITWD is illegal." My original question was how many arrests had been made for 2 consenting adults engaging in this lifestyle. The answer we came up with was 1.

I agree that any state that wants to can interpret the laws of assault to include contact play. I admit it all depends on where you live whether or not contact play will be considered illegal. Some states allow contact play by way of fetish clubs. Some states do not allow it.

BTW-this is not a dialogue where I am trying to prove you wrong. You are right. there are a lot of risks in this lifestyle and people should be very cautious. And the more conservative your area the more cautious you should be.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 9:08:07 AM   
LittleBroken


Posts: 207
Status: offline 		I loath the word "Baggage"

I'm going through a rough time at the moment and yes I'm volatile and more than a bit unstable....

Give me a little time to get a grip and regroup...time to gather my wits and straighten my back bone and get over this new hurt.

Lessons learnt..

Older and wiser...

What ever doesn't kill you....

Blah, Blah, Blah....

I go to bed of a night a wretched, over wrought human being and I awake the next day.
Some days it seems impossible and incredible that I actually wake up at all.
Pure misery can't kill on it's own if you don't raise a hand against your self.

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 9:21:33 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Not in the case of the san diego 6. I had a friend who was one of those 6 and she was playing with her husband. She did however, argue with the police and was arrested.
As far as I can recall no one was arrested based on prostition and all charges were dropped a year after they were hauled away. They still had to pay attorney fees, take time, and face humilation for this arrest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

Thanks Red. it would seem the cases listed at that link were either arrests made for prostitution (charging money) or a victim saying it was non consensual.


(in reply to LadyCimarron)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 9:40:45 AM   
LittleBroken


Posts: 207
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan

Well that can happen, however not all Dom's see things like Herpes as a Death Sentence. They are manageable and should have little bearing on your ability to be a good submissive.

Take solace in that there are Dominants who would accept you as you are. Breaks, Bumps, Baggage and all.

QSM


That for all the good will it conveys is a load of horseshit!

It fucking mattered when MY Master was faced with the choice.
It fucking mattered when the Man I loved walked away after 3 years without even considering ways around the issue.
After three years he didn't see me as worth while to explore options so he would be comfortable touching me.
I was raped by a friend and he chose to walk away after I got an STD from it.

STD's matter and they do affect the way you are viewed and treated.

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 9:48:12 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		I'm assuming that you mean in the US right? Probably many BDSM activities are punishable in much harsher ways in other countries.

I'm not 100% aware of what the laws are in Canada.I know that we have some anti-obscenity laws that will affect BDSM publications. I also know that if someone claims non-consensual sex and a BDSM act was involved, it might harshen the sentence for the accused if convicted. We have Fetish clubs with some theatrical BDSM play.

Because I play privately with people that I have developed a bond and trust with and that my dynamics involve a woman on top, I'd assume that I'm a much lesser risk of ever having legal grief. Also, the late Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau liberated our nation in 1967 by announcing that "There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation." Trudeau's Omnibus Bill brought issues like abortion, homosexuality and divorce law to the forefront for the first time, changing the political and social landscape in Canada forever.

As for court cases, I found this interesting article written by a Canadian that discusses the issue: http://edmontonosociety.org/doc/kinkysexlaw.htm

An excerpt:

Consensual BDSM play is rarely as extreme as Spanner*, and rarely finds its way into the courts, but when it does, its more often because someone became too cavalier about the principles of safe, sane, and consensual. Thankfully this doesn't trouble Mr. and Mrs. Bumstead, last seen together shopping for chain and ping-pong paddles at the local mall, nor will it trouble the vast majority of men and women who actively play consensual erotic BDSM games.


* The referenced article explains the Spanner case

- LA

Edited to add a footnote



< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 6/6/2010 9:49:42 AM >

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to LadyCimarron)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 11:14:27 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Calm down, honey. There is no reason to get upset about this, its merely a discussion.


quote:

Now chill out and lets not commit any verbal assaults online


Not upset at all punkin, but I do get a laugh out of people who try to use this approach to belittle others.




_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to LadyCimarron)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 11:20:21 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:



The staff of the dungeon found me and cut me down and took photos of my back, buttocks and thighs.

But really how could I seek legal recourse?
I was WILLINGLY in a place of torture/S&M.
I WILLINGLY agreed to allow myself to be tied to a tripod with a ball gag in my mouth.
There was no written agreement as to safe words or signals, no observers.
His word against mine as to the agreed limits of the scene.

No lawyer would touch me.


That is awful. It's times like that, that make me wish we could take the law into our own hands. Maybe tie the asshat up and let the newbies practice their single tails on him or knife throwing. But I guess that would make us as bad as him.


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to LittleBroken)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 11:23:08 AM   
LadyCimarron


Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Calm down, honey. There is no reason to get upset about this, its merely a discussion.


quote:

Now chill out and lets not commit any verbal assaults online


Not upset at all punkin, but I do get a laugh out of people who try to use this approach to belittle others.





I apologize.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 11:26:30 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleBroken

quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan

Well that can happen, however not all Dom's see things like Herpes as a Death Sentence. They are manageable and should have little bearing on your ability to be a good submissive.

Take solace in that there are Dominants who would accept you as you are. Breaks, Bumps, Baggage and all.

QSM


That for all the good will it conveys is a load of horseshit!

It fucking mattered when MY Master was faced with the choice.
It fucking mattered when the Man I loved walked away after 3 years without even considering ways around the issue.
After three years he didn't see me as worth while to explore options so he would be comfortable touching me.
I was raped by a friend and he chose to walk away after I got an STD from it.

STD's matter and they do affect the way you are viewed and treated.



Well it obviously mattered to your ex and that really sucks. But like the man said, not all doms are like that. He was trying to be nice, so why are you jumping all over him?


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to LittleBroken)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 11:30:20 AM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		I do believe the corporal punishment aspects are considered illegal, nobody can legally consent to being hit, spanked, flogged, punched, ect ect. The law just  does not recognize those who like and willingly will accept CP most times.

And people have had their kids taken away, when it came to light in certain situations that there was a kinky lifestyle being lived, and it certainly has been used against people in custody hearings and stuff, where one partner wants to play dirty and bring in sex life preferences as stuff to mud sling the other. in certain situations  It works too.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

I often see threads where a poster will state that most of WIITWD is illegal. I am not sure if that is true. I don't know of any laws that directly prohibit lifestyle activities. Furthermore there are a large number of states with BDSM dungeons or clubs. The police know they are there and they know what goes on in them (some have cops as members). Cops are alot more "kink aware" than we give them credit for. Now we only think of illegal in terms of the liablitiy of "hitting someone" but maybe WIITWD could also legally be considered "intimate contact."

Just the mere act of hitting someone iin and of itself is not assault. Especially if it is consensual. After all, we see friends horseplay and wrestle all the time. Guys get hit playing football and other rough sports. I know its a game but arguably WIITWD is also a game. We have mind freaks and other entertainers who allow themselves to be harmed and charge money for others to watch. So David Blaine gets consensually locked in a box for days and its entertainment, but if you do it at home its a crime?

How many arrests have been actually made solely for bdsm activities? I don't mean arrests for charging money or nonconsensual activities or actions involving minors or someone just flaking out after a scene and lying to the authorities.  How many arrests have been made of just two consentual adults who both agree to engage in this activity? Has anyone done any research on this?
 

(in reply to LadyCimarron)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 11:32:57 AM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:



quote:
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleBroken

quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan

Well that can happen, however not all Dom's see things like Herpes as a Death Sentence. They are manageable and should have little bearing on your ability to be a good submissive.

Take solace in that there are Dominants who would accept you as you are. Breaks, Bumps, Baggage and all.

QSM


That for all the good will it conveys is a load of horseshit!

It fucking mattered when MY Master was faced with the choice.
It fucking mattered when the Man I loved walked away after 3 years without even considering ways around the issue.
After three years he didn't see me as worth while to explore options so he would be comfortable touching me.
I was raped by a friend and he chose to walk away after I got an STD from it.

STD's matter and they do affect the way you are viewed and treated.



Well it obviously mattered to your ex and that really sucks. But like the man said, not all doms are like that. He was trying to be nice, so why are you jumping all over him?



Because she's all fucked up and sad? She's being pretty open about that.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 11:36:14 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah she is. Give her some room please.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Lucienne)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 11:38:41 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleBroken
Crying for the Stars and the Moon won't cure me and won't make me acceptable to my ex master.

You still pine for this dude?  The guy who left you after your rape?  Do yourself a favor and MOVE THE FUCK ON.

I dated a woman with oral herpes for over a year.  She took Zovirax every day, and sometimes we didn't kiss.  I've had a panel done well after she and I split up, and I'm clean.  HSV isn't leprosy.  Hell, even leprosy isn't leprosy any more, in the year 2010.

If you make me hijack this thread again, I will swim the Pacific and kick your ass.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LittleBroken)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 11:45:02 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Jeez Red, you know I adore you, but unfortunately for many of us, recovering from serious trauma and "moving the fuck on" doesn't occur on any logical time scale and she's just openly and publicly shared a horrible personal trauma and admitted she's all fucked up and afraid and is totally bent up about it.



_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 11:50:50 AM   
ModTwentyOne


Posts: 2504
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

If you make me hijack this thread again, I will swim the Pacific and kick your ass.



As will we.


_____________________________

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: BDSM LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... - 6/6/2010 11:53:52 AM   
LadyCimarron


Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline 		MOD 21: Is there a way to close this thread out or lock it from further posting. IMHO I think enough has been said.

(in reply to ModTwentyOne)
Profile   Post #: 80
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