RE: Slave's delusions (Full Version)

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SocratesNot -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 3:22:13 PM)

Porcelaine, I would like to ask you something. I noticed that of all the posters here you are usually the first who will always INSIST that the best thing for the slave is to stay in a relationship no matter what, and, IMO, the concept of leaving is totally alien to your understanding of slavery.
Why is this so?
Why do you insist so strongly that she has to stay and can't leave, no matter what?
And why do you think that it is ALWAYS better to stay than to leave?
Why you think that the following relationship will most likely be worse than the present one and not better?



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 3:37:06 PM)

quote:

You have quite freely admitted that you are new to this, and your location makes it difficult/impossible to join a bdsm scene. That sucks, and I feel for you

I'm just wondering how you've done all of this detailed observation...


SN you seem to have missed this question posed by mos. I admit I'm curious as well, given the lack of BDSM community where you live, how have you managed to make the observations you say you've made.



WyldHrt -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 3:44:42 PM)

quote:

Why you think that the following relationship will most likely be worse than the present one and not better?

Maybe she read this, posted on another thread:
quote:

I want to tell the OP that I think that she should be very happy because she found a caring and loving person to submit to, and that it would not be wise for her to try find some jerk or asshole instead.

Cherish what you have! It may be even better than something that you don't have.
Even if you can find a more satisfying partner, after you lose your current partner, you risk being alone or finding some asshole.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[8D]



SocratesNot -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 3:45:27 PM)

quote:


SN you seem to have missed this question posed by mos. I admit I'm curious as well, given the lack of BDSM community where you live, how have you managed to make the observations you say you've made.


Forums, blogs, etc... If they lie (slaves who write such stuff), then I lie too.



SocratesNot -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 3:49:56 PM)

WyldHrt, congratulations! You successfully used my own weapon against me! That's really smart.
However, this was completely different situation. This wasn't abusive relationship. In this case the girl just thought he wasn't dominant enough.
And I never said that the next relationship can't be better or worse.
Both possibilities are equally likely.
But it seems that porcelaine always encourages staying in situations of hard-core uber-slavery or even in abusive relationship, and leaving in situations when the Dom is too nice.



tazzygirl -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 3:50:44 PM)

Who defines the abuse?



SocratesNot -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 3:54:55 PM)

quote:

Who defines the abuse?


Usually no one, because the slave is too subjective to define it properly, and psychologists or cops never discover the situation.



WyldHrt -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 3:57:34 PM)

quote:

Forums, blogs, etc... If they lie (slaves who write such stuff), then I lie too.

Ummm... You've been here 2 weeks and not yet realized that stuff posted on forums and blogs isn't always a reliable or factual? Whooo boy!



SocratesNot -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 4:00:39 PM)


quote:

Ummm... You've been here 2 weeks and not yet realized that stuff posted on forums and blogs isn't a reliable sopurce of information? Whooo boy!


I agree. But give me one reason why would someone tell that she is abused yet she can't leave, if this is not true?
People are usually uncomfortable talking about such things, why would anyone like to invent such stories and share them with the world?
Maybe they fantasize about being abused and unable to leave, but do you really think that all such stories are pure fantasy?



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 4:05:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

Forums, blogs, etc... If they lie (slaves who write such stuff), then I lie too.

Ummm... You've been here 2 weeks and not yet realized that stuff posted on forums and blogs isn't always a reliable or factual? Whooo boy!


Hey give him a break Wyld, it's almost 3 am in Bosnia, the poor guy must be exhausted [;)][8D]



SocratesNot -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 4:08:25 PM)

Actually it's 1:08 AM. [:D] You were pretty close.



tazzygirl -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 4:13:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

Who defines the abuse?


Usually no one, because the slave is too subjective to define it properly, and psychologists or cops never discover the situation.



And yet you did. Interesting. Are you a psychologist?



subwaythru -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 4:14:18 PM)

It is in reading threads lile this one that I feel profoundly humble gratitude for the caring way I have been taught and shown and trained and the ones who do not betray the sacred bond with which they have been entrusted.

What can I say, other than, if you are being abused and you don't like it, get out. There are so many wonderful Masters out there.



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 4:17:31 PM)

*grins* You should have agreed with me, exhaustion is a good excuse, I know I've used it.



tazzygirl -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 4:17:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot


quote:

Ummm... You've been here 2 weeks and not yet realized that stuff posted on forums and blogs isn't a reliable sopurce of information? Whooo boy!


I agree. But give me one reason why would someone tell that she is abused yet she can't leave, if this is not true?
People are usually uncomfortable talking about such things, why would anyone like to invent such stories and share them with the world?
Maybe they fantasize about being abused and unable to leave, but do you really think that all such stories are pure fantasy?



Easy enough to answer. Why do they do it? For the attention. Some are just wanting, craving that attention.

Case in point. I had someone come to me with a story about a man i once lived with for many years. The man who was asking the questions wanted to know if what he had been told could possibly be true. My answer... hell no. What did the girl who told the story gain? His attention, his sympathy, someone in her corner that she could run too and tell tales and have him eating out of her hand.

Do you honestly believe such people dont exist?



SocratesNot -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 4:18:28 PM)

quote:


In a pragmatic, day-to-day, drop-the-bowling-ball-on-my-foot sort of way, neither Carol nor I can leave each other. The thought is really just not thinkable. It's a perfectly appropriate and useful way to think about our day-to-day existence. At a deeper, and more precise level, it would be more accurate to say that "without some fundamental change in our relationship, the idea of ending the relationship is non-sensical." But honestly, that level of detail is not only needlessly complex but also actually counter-productive to solving day to day problems.


Jeff, your relationship is harmonious and there's no abuse. In such relationship it is extremely unlikely, if not impossible, for you or for Carol to leave the relationship.
I understand it very well. But I don't want to see statements "It is impossibe for the slave to leave the relationship" or "The slave has to take anything from the Master because she is his property"  - these are absolute and too strong statements, and as such they are ridiculous.

Saying that the slave can't leave the relationship is the same as saying that divorce doesn't exist.

Most relationships begin as harmonious ones and many of them stay harmonious forever or even evolve each year and become even more harmonious and fulfilling.
All these things that I said about leaving do not apply to such relationships at all.
But some of relationships deteriorate and insisting that the slave can't leave such deteriorating relationship is very dangerous and unethical, and also untrue.
This is a dangerous delusion. If everything was always so perfect in relationships (including vanilla) then there wouldn't be so many divorces today.



WyldHrt -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 4:21:37 PM)

quote:

I agree. But give me one reason why would someone tell that she is abused yet she can't leave, if this is not true?
People are usually uncomfortable talking about such things, why would anyone like to invent such stories and share them with the world?
Maybe they fantasize about being abused and unable to leave, but do you really think that all such stories are pure fantasy?

I think you underestimate some people's need for attention and sympathy. Go to the 'Ask a Sub' and 'Ask a Master' forums and read some of the threads started by subs asking for help. It will be quite educational.



SocratesNot -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 4:23:25 PM)

quote:

Do you honestly believe such people dont exist?


Of course they do exist, there are many attention seekers out there, and there are many who want to gain sympathy by playing victim.
But you simply can't dismiss all the stories about abuse as attention seeking! This would be very inhumane and cruel. Some people have real issues and problems, we can't dismiss them as attention seekers just like that.



SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 4:24:42 PM)

You seem to not understand that as slaves or submissive's we tend to submit to both the good and the bad.

Im a masochist, In fact with out a at least a good amount of pain i feel odd and out of place and well frankly not alive.

I seek out sadistic or at least men who can be in part sadistic, to fulfill the need to wanting pain in my life.

I submit when i find a worthy partner, for the good the bad, and everything else.

My submission is never and never will be subjective to only the good times in life, or otherwise my submission wouldnt really amount to much..

As such i submit to the pain some times heavier then i prefer because it makes my partner happy, It fulfills us both in a way you cant seem to understand. Id go through heaven and hell for the right Dom no matter what its effects or possible damage to myself, because as the "right" dom Ive offered him my life in exchange for the fulfillment he offers.

Im not delusional, Im not insane, and I dont put myself in to abusive situations. I just know how my mind works and nothing makes me happier then a hand over warmed flesh and that purring softness of thats my good girl, youve made me so proud....



gungadin09 -> RE: Slave's delusions (6/6/2010 4:29:06 PM)

i've never been in a relationship where my partner was threatening me with knives or stalking me, or whatever. i dare say if that ever happened it would be obvious what i should do. No matter how much i loved the person, i would cut my losses and get out. However, i think that most cases of "abuse" are much less cut and dry.

i believe every relationship, and not just in BDSM, is a balancing act between one person's wants, desires, needs, opinions, points of view, and another's. It is a give and take. The question is at what point someone has "taken" too much. That's a very hard question to answer, especially at the time. Whenever i have been involved in "bad" relationships, whether it was with boyfriends, plutonic friends, job choices, or whatever-- i didn't fully realise it until long afterwards.

There is a crisis point- something will happen to set it off, the last straw. And then i will walk, or the other person will. But even then i will not fully understand the situation. It is only after months or even years of careful consideration, when enough time had passed and i finally get some perspective, only then am i able to decide what went wrong. i dunno, i guess i'm just slow to pass judgement. i like to let things percolate for a while before i come to a final conclusion. i think if you judge too quickly, then you tend to misjudge. And at the time, my judgement simply isn't clear. i don't "know" what to think.

i would guess that's what happens to people who stay in abusive relationships. i think almost anyone would leave a relationship if they absolutely knew they were being abused. But they don't "know" it. They might believe it, but then there's this other person telling them that they're wrong. And so they stay, because they're conflicted, because they're not sure who's "right". In hindsight, it may be perfectly clear, but it's not that clear at the time.

i think it's healthy and natural to make allowances for the other person's point of view when you're in a relationship. If we all just walked every time we thought the other person did wrong, then we wouldn't have many relationships. Of course, that means there are situations where we stay too long. That's just the luck of the draw. No one finds their perfect partner right away, and there are lots of mistakes and stumbles along the way. i don't think this qualifies as "delusion". i think it is worse not to trust someone, than to trust them too much. As least, up to a point.

pam



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