Do to you or do for me?

Do to you or do for me? (Full Version)

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LadyNTrainer -> Do to you or do for me? (6/6/2010 2:56:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer No worries. And for the record: I even quite like a certain degree of narcissism in a dominant. Though maybe that's a subject for a different thread. An interesting topic indeed. There is certainly more than one way to be a dominant, and more than one way to be dominant. As a probably over-broad generality, I've observed a spectrum that goes between "I get off on what you can do for me and how you make me feel" and "I get off on what I can make you feel and what I can do to you." I tend to lean a ways over into the latter end of this spectrum. In scene space, it fascinates me to get into a submissive or bottom's head and play him like a fine instrument. I want to make him feel. I want to hear his breath come in little gasps as he moans into my mouth. I want to feel the hot pulse in his throat accelerate as his heart pounds in fear and ecstasy. I want to see his pale skin redden under my hard slaps. I am definitely a do-stuff-to-you dominant rather than a do-stuff-for-me dominant. Outside of scene space, with my secondary partner, the dynamic tends to be more about me being the big strong dominant and taking care of my pet than about him serving me. With my primary partner, we're both natural caretakers, so we have each other's backs, and he goes out of his way to do for me and take care of me because he's just wired that way. Our dynamic ends up being as much or more about me doing things to or for them rather than them doing things for me, though my primary is so service oriented and so much of a caretaker that he actually does find things to do for me despite my lack of inclination to order up very much in the way of service. I'm a very active, aggressive, "get out of the way so I can do it myself and do it right" kind of person, so it's rare that I have the patience to sit back and be served. At times this can frustrate both of my partners to distraction, albeit in different ways. LOL Anyhow, that's just me, and your mileage may of course vary. Ain't no wrong or right about it so much as different strokes working for different folks. There's doms and subs on both sides of the kneel who are likely to identify as preferring to do to/for or be done to/for in relation to their partners. Dominants, do you focus more on your partner doing things for you and on your own feelings, or do you derive as much or more pleasure from doing to or for your partner? Submissives, do you spend most of your time yearning for your dominant do to things to you and to make you feel a certain way or experience certain things, or do you get the most happiness from doing things for her? Do your percentages shift depending on whether or not you're in scene space or talking about overall relationship dynamics? Doms and subs, does it drive you nuts if your desires in this respect don't match up with your partner's? Eg, if you're both focusing more on your partner than yourselves, or if you're both focusing more on your own feelings and what you want your partner to do to or for you?

LadyAngelika -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/6/2010 3:33:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer Dominants, do you focus more on your partner doing things for you and on your own feelings, or do you derive as much or more pleasure from doing to or for your partner? I think that I generally lean more towards being a do-stuff-to-you dominant rather than a do-stuff-for-me dominant. I'm pretty independent as well and I've rarely relied on others and I don't like having to ask to have things done for me. I need to be with a proactive man that will anticipate my needs. I'm not expecting him to be a mind reader as I will tell him what I like. I just need to feel an authentic desire to give back to me otherwise I'll simply feel used. quote: Do your percentages shift depending on whether or not you're in scene space or talking about overall relationship dynamics? I think it depends more on the overall mood than the activity to be completely honest. quote: Doms and subs, does it drive you nuts if your desires in this respect don't match up with your partner's? Eg, if you're both focusing more on your partner than yourselves, or if you're both focusing more on your own feelings and what you want your partner to do to or for you? I can't say this happens to me as I tend to hold out for people I'm very compatible with. I mean, if it happens when I'm initially seeing someone, it might actually indicate incompatibility. But so far, I've been pretty lucky, having in the past had partners who are both appreciative and giving. - LA

blackpearl81 -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/6/2010 4:14:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer No worries. And for the record: I even quite like a certain degree of narcissism in a dominant. Though maybe that's a subject for a different thread. An interesting topic indeed. There is certainly more than one way to be a dominant, and more than one way to be dominant. As a probably over-broad generality, I've observed a spectrum that goes between "I get off on what you can do for me and how you make me feel" and "I get off on what I can make you feel and what I can do to you." I tend to lean a ways over into the latter end of this spectrum. In scene space, it fascinates me to get into a submissive or bottom's head and play him like a fine instrument. I want to make him feel. I want to hear his breath come in little gasps as he moans into my mouth. I want to feel the hot pulse in his throat accelerate as his heart pounds in fear and ecstasy. I want to see his pale skin redden under my hard slaps. I am definitely a do-stuff-to-you dominant rather than a do-stuff-for-me dominant. Outside of scene space, with my secondary partner, the dynamic tends to be more about me being the big strong dominant and taking care of my pet than about him serving me. With my primary partner, we're both natural caretakers, so we have each other's backs, and he goes out of his way to do for me and take care of me because he's just wired that way. Our dynamic ends up being as much or more about me doing things to or for them rather than them doing things for me, though my primary is so service oriented and so much of a caretaker that he actually does find things to do for me despite my lack of inclination to order up very much in the way of service. I'm a very active, aggressive, "get out of the way so I can do it myself and do it right" kind of person, so it's rare that I have the patience to sit back and be served. At times this can frustrate both of my partners to distraction, albeit in different ways. LOL Anyhow, that's just me, and your mileage may of course vary. Ain't no wrong or right about it so much as different strokes working for different folks. There's doms and subs on both sides of the kneel who are likely to identify as preferring to do to/for or be done to/for in relation to their partners. Dominants, do you focus more on your partner doing things for you and on your own feelings, or do you derive as much or more pleasure from doing to or for your partner? Submissives, do you spend most of your time yearning for your dominant do to things to you and to make you feel a certain way or experience certain things, or do you get the most happiness from doing things for her? Do your percentages shift depending on whether or not you're in scene space or talking about overall relationship dynamics? Doms and subs, does it drive you nuts if your desires in this respect don't match up with your partner's? Eg, if you're both focusing more on your partner than yourselves, or if you're both focusing more on your own feelings and what you want your partner to do to or for you? Nice post! I'm definitely more of a "do things to/for her" type person. This manifested itself in a few ways for me, namely with learning how to cook something other than Hot Pockets & Totino's Pizza rolls, and by learning massage techniques. (I bought some books on that several years ago) For me anyway, I think I'm geared more toward overall relationship dynamics, as I've never "played" in a scene. As far as focusing, ehhh... I don't really know how to answer that question, as I've never been involved in a dynamic.

LaTigresse -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/6/2010 5:58:44 PM)
First and foremost I want to know what they can do for me. How they think they can be a positive addition to my life and home. The last thing I want to hear is what they want me to do to them. They would be here to serve me, not visa versa. That is the beginning mindset however it is much more complex than that. It's not that I don't want to, or won't, do to them. It's just that I do not want that to be the focus. Once we get past the concept that they are here to serve me, even within the 'what I will do to them' or even for them. I have a huge problem with being seen as a life support system for their kink. It turns me off instantly.

LadyPact -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/6/2010 6:27:46 PM)
It's almost an unfair question in My case. My answer is going to change depending on how I'm feeling about the spectrum. I've said it often on various topic threads that I don't really feel I can pin down one over the other (doing things for Me than doing things for his own enjoyment). That can be applied to just about anything. Just like asking the question of which is better; a maso who enjoys pain for pain's sake or someone who is enduring pain because it pleases Me. Both trip My triggers for different reasons. As far as play goes, I'm never motivated by just one thing. I actually am in huge agreement with LaT about not wanting to be life support for kink. Even when people are just play partners, I don't expect to be doing everything and the other person just take. Even just in casual play, I do pay attention to how a bottom treats a top once aftercare is over. People pick up bonus points with Me over the smallest of gestures.

LadyNTrainer -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/6/2010 7:34:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I have a huge problem with being seen as a life support system for their kink. It turns me off instantly. Yeah, that pisses me off right royally, too. I'm definitely an "I like to do you" dominant, but nothing turns me off faster than a guy who is relating to me as an animated pair of tits with a whip or a cardboard cutout image from a fetish magazine that he can masturbate over. My submissives are also my friends, lovers and life partners, and they've never once treated me that way or thought of me that way. If they had, we wouldn't be in a relationship. Hell, the problem I'm more likely to have with them is that they almost never ask me for or initiate any kind of play because we have too much fun just being together. Most of the time I'm the one initiating play or sex. That's usually fine with me, but I've occasionally asked them both to step up and do their share of getting the kink energy moving now and then.

cloudboy -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/7/2010 4:36:07 PM)
My primary relationship is more about doing stuff for my wife -- keeping house, cooking, shopping, paying bills, general life support etc. My secondary relationship is more about personal interaction. Doing all the keeping house, cooking, shopping, paying bills, general life support etc. for two people would get old for me -- and I also don't consider that stuff BDSM, either. Roles should be natural and complimentary, or the relationship will be doomed by tug-of-wars, misaligned temperaments, and irritations. The Taoists would refer to this as Yin and Yang. There is also a great book on this known as The Tao of Relationships. Grigg encourages readers to set aside preoccupations with sexual etiquette and compatible goals to concentrate on achieving the harmonious, dynamic balance of yin and yang ("Possess and there will be loss. Try and there will be failure. Struggle and there will be defeat. To arrive, unloose. To discover, yield. To trust, empty. To receive, honour"). The NYT also ran a story about how if marrieds treated each as they do their pets, things might go much, much better for them. Do you greet each other with excitement, overlook each other’s flaws and easily forgive bad behavior? If it’s your pet, the answer is probably yes. But your spouse? Probably not.

mummyman321 -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/7/2010 6:12:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer Submissives, do you spend most of your time yearning for your dominant do to things to you and to make you feel a certain way or experience certain things, or do you get the most happiness from doing things for her? Do your percentages shift depending on whether or not you're in scene space or talking about overall relationship dynamics? Doms and subs, does it drive you nuts if your desires in this respect don't match up with your partner's? Eg, if you're both focusing more on your partner than yourselves, or if you're both focusing more on your own feelings and what you want your partner to do to or for you? From this sub's point of view I do not see it as "Do it to me" or "Do it to you". My main focus in talking with a potential Domme is finding out what motivates her? What does she like? What does she like it? I want to know what makes her tick. At the same time I will state my interests as well with the hope being we have similar interests, wants and desires that a relationship can be built on. For the Dommes that stand up and say "what can you do for me, its not about you" is simply being a "Do me Domme" which in my eyes is no better than a "Do me sub". Its a one sided scenario. One sided relationships do not grow. They may exist for a while but are finally doomed to fail.

subartist -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/7/2010 6:36:11 PM)
This is I feel an interesting question. My first ever explicit D/s experience, years ago, was with a woman who became my online Domme. And on a daily basis she used to send me long instructions, she made my schedule, she gave me tasks to do, I was like her real life sims character... But very quickly I felt, the whole thing was all about me, not about her, it was her focused on me. What could I possibly do for her? Later on I had a domestic servitude relationship with another woman, not the D/s relationship I really wanted, but it felt good to be able to do things for her, and that our dynamic was focused on her...

undergroundsea -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/7/2010 6:57:51 PM)
There are components of me that like to do for, and there are components that like to be done. I would want a healthy balance of both. I am naturally inclined to do for. I think my partner doing to me would make for greater two-way flow of energy and contribution to relationship. Cheers, Sea

DommeKeliDallas -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/7/2010 7:48:29 PM)
Men are selfish...I think it is the XY thing. I get MINE in the very beginning...then and only then can they amuse themselves.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/7/2010 8:20:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DommeKeliDallas Men are selfish...I think it is the XY thing. I get MINE in the very beginning...then and only then can they amuse themselves. You and I have obviously met very different men. - LA

PeonForHer -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/7/2010 8:24:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DommeKeliDallas I get MINE in the very beginning...then and only then can they amuse themselves. You may have your knockers on this forum, DKD, but nobody can say that you're unassertive when it comes to malesubs.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/8/2010 12:12:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DommeKeliDallas I get MINE in the very beginning...then and only then can they amuse themselves. So 'doing to' counts as them 'amusing themselves', rather than something you both enjoy doing? And you wonder why you tend to nark the lifestylers?

Ladynslave -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/8/2010 12:41:38 AM)
I tend to float back and forth on the issue. In the beginning, it was more me doing it to him as it was what he wanted and before I recognised that this is what I wanted for myself. Lately, and many times in between, I have weighed the issue as to what he has done for me lately as opposed to what I have done for him and acted accordingly, waiting for play or playing with things he enjoys that I don't necessarily enjoy because he has been good enough to earn such things. While I refuse to surpass my hard limits to be a supplier of his kinks, I also expect that somewhere it clicks that those extremes that can turn me on if I am in the right mood but aren't the first to leap to mind are merited. So, I guess what I am really saying is that it is a 50/50 deal of him serving me versus me making him feel things and it all depends on mood and circumstances. Lady P.S. I also admit to a certain weakness in phrasing things as though he has a choice in things I am pointing out that need to be done and not as though they are orders. I sometimes thinks the distinction should be obvious, but it isn't always. But at the same time, the same is true in the reverse. He expects me to know what he is in the mood for on any given day and I have never demonstrated any talents as a mind reader nor do I think I will ever develope this skill.

OttersSwim -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/8/2010 6:18:11 AM)
Service is love made manifest... I LOVE LOVE LOVE taking care of people. If I cannot be of service or if someone won't let me help them it just drives me to distraction. So I believe that a compatible D-type for me, needs to have the ability to sit back a bit and let themselves be cared for. Fortunately, my Lady is exactly that sort and so we get along famously. :)

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/8/2010 9:27:37 AM)
I'm a caretaker, I can't help it. I am also a Princess, as the daughter of an ethnic household, so... I am used to being taken care OF, though it usually doesn't occur to me to ask, since I take the path of least resistance! (ie, if I am closer to the kitchen, I will not call you in to fetch my tea!) I am in agreement with LaT and LnT. I need a lot of attention, I resent it tremendously when I get treated like a fetish delivery system---that got the last one shown the door---but why would I want folks around me who feel neglected?

LadyNTrainer -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/8/2010 10:01:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim I LOVE LOVE LOVE taking care of people. If I cannot be of service or if someone won't let me help them it just drives me to distraction. So I believe that a compatible D-type for me, needs to have the ability to sit back a bit and let themselves be cared for. Fortunately, my Lady is exactly that sort and so we get along famously. :) So we might be a classic example of a potentially bad mismatch where both people are decent, honorable and authentically dom or sub, just wired along a different axis when it comes to caretaking. I think this is something useful to learn from. I have no patience with sitting back and being served or cared for. I'm likely to be up in thirty seconds aggressively poking my nose into whatever interests me rather than sitting on my duff waiting for someone else to do it for me. This would probably drive a heavily service oriented sub to distraction and make them feel unwanted or unneeded in the relationship, no matter how much time I spent tying them up and beating them and dressing them attractively for my pleasure. And that would be genuinely tragic. Languages of love may differ, even when you're both kinky and of compatible orientations. These are issues that can be actively worked around to give both partners the opportunity to love and be loved in their own language, but they're real and serious potential obstacles. I think this is a pretty good illustration actually, since OS and I would otherwise be a reasonably compatible D/s couple on the surface. But I suspect we'd have a good chance of doing a crash and burn on this issue, especially if we weren't fully aware of it at the outset. Neither OS nor I are on the dating market so this is strictly theoretical for us, but it's a good example to consider.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/8/2010 10:10:50 AM)
That's an excellent point, LnT. I like being "waited on" in the sense of having doors opened (and yes, I open doors for others), refills fetched, requests granted, but I am not an invalid, and I don't like being fussed over. Yes, I want someone to rub lotion on my legs---which I will NEVER do myself!---or scratch my back, but in the long run, I am just gonna do it myself more often than not.

Lockit -> RE: Do to you or do for me? (6/8/2010 11:39:07 AM)
I don't see a life partnership as a bartering system. We do for one another, in the ways that matter to us both. It is about two, not one and any lopsidedness proves to me that it isn't what I seek. I may have dynamic's that seem to cater to one or the other, but it is a balance agreed upon, based on our wants, needs and desires, that bring fulfillment to each. I don't want someone who expects me to do for them, mostly in sexual ways that don't give just as much as I would in that scenario. I want the give and take that two healthy, non selfish people can create between them. We do for one another and anything other than that is unacceptable to me. Thus, my single state I am gladly living until I find a give and take situation with the dynamics I seek with someone happy to share them with me.

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