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The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 6:17:34 AM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		The Torah, Bible and Koran (Qur'an), the holy scriptures attributed to God, and the worship of the deity, what exactly were they meant to be ?




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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 6:23:19 AM   
eyesopened


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Status: offline 		THE diety?  You say that like there is only one to choose from.

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 6:32:19 AM   
tazzygirl


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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 6:39:01 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		To the religious, they are a chronicle of G_d and his interactions with man, in the stages of forming a religion.

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 7:43:54 AM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Is that all, just chronicles ?



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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 7:58:23 AM   
vincentML


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Status: offline 		Before they were canonized or however else approved .... probably a recounting of oral tradition by individual writers.

During the process of being canonized or approved .... perhaps an expression of the community of believers.

Long after being canonized and since being "politicized" by the authorities of the community of believers .... perhaps both a continued guidance and source of inspiration but perhaps also an expression of orthodoxy from which deviation is prohibited.

Gosh, I hope that throws out some red meat for the dogs and tigers.

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 8:00:10 AM   
LadyCimarron


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Status: offline 		Chronicles, wisdom and a few nuggets of truth.

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 8:05:00 AM   
LadyCimarron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Before they were canonized or however else approved .... probably a recounting of oral tradition by individual writers.

During the process of being canonized or approved .... perhaps an expression of the community of believers.

Long after being canonized and since being "politicized" by the authorities of the community of believers .... perhaps both a continued guidance and source of inspiration but perhaps also an expression of orthodoxy from which deviation is prohibited.

Gosh, I hope that throws out some red meat for the dogs and tigers.


Oooooh, you wanna go there huh?
Well all three books have been used throughout history to push the political agendas of those in power. The funny thing is that with the Bible this has been done by both surpressing and allowing the distribution of it. (Well.......at least the parts of it they wanted us to see.) I must admit, as control mechanisms go, religion has always been a pretty good one.

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 8:36:10 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Before they were canonized or however else approved .... probably a recounting of oral tradition by individual writers.

During the process of being canonized or approved .... perhaps an expression of the community of believers.

Long after being canonized and since being "politicized" by the authorities of the community of believers .... perhaps both a continued guidance and source of inspiration but perhaps also an expression of orthodoxy from which deviation is prohibited.

Gosh, I hope that throws out some red meat for the dogs and tigers.


Oooooh, you wanna go there huh?
Well all three books have been used throughout history to push the political agendas of those in power. The funny thing is that with the Bible this has been done by both surpressing and allowing the distribution of it. (Well.......at least the parts of it they wanted us to see.) I must admit, as control mechanisms go, religion has always been a pretty good one.


Why not? There have been twenty-two Ecumenical Councils of Catholic Church leaders. One of the Councils more or less approved the Canon, I think. Nicea was the first of the twenty-two and was called by Constantine (circa 326 ce) to sort out orthodoxy from heresy. Here the Doctrine of the Trinity was proclaimed. The Council of Constantinople condemned a Pope as a heretic (680 ce) While Vatican I (1870) propounded the Immaculate Conception of Mary and the Infallability of the Pope. So, yes ... very political. The first time I ever came across this phrase but it sums up the authoritarianism of the clerics rather nicely: the Constantinian Catholic Imperialism. So, it seems the tradition of the Councils acted to interpret the New Testament, to interpret/expand the Doctrine and to protect the Authority of the clerical Church.

I understand the Talmud is a compilation of interpretations of Torah but lacking a central authority the rabinical tradition has not been so dogmatic I don't think.

I am clueless on the Koran.

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 8:38:26 AM   
Kana


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Status: offline 		"The Torah, Bible, Koran"

Good reads all


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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 8:46:21 AM   
IronBear


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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Aye The Torah, Bible, Koran are excellent reading material. Bible wise, I always preferred the Old Testament. I also add to those both the Egyptian Book Of the Dead and thr Tibetan Book Of The Dead as also excellent reads and very enlightening too. 

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 8:53:24 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I was asking the question in the hope that someone could tell me if they were in fact designed to be a manual for moral guidance, you know the stuff if taken on board might lead one to be the best person they can be for themselves, others and the enviroment.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 8:59:50 AM   
Kana


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Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Each book contains tons of moral writing, histories, scriptures, teachings, lessons and truisms. As a spiritual seeker, and a man who likes to argue from fact, not absurd opinion, I read them before I turned 15 and each shaped a part of who and what I am today. Read with an open mind, that's my best advice-well that, and maybe get a guide. All three books tend to operate on many different levels-I tended to catch the surface points, but without the education required to contextualize the content, I could not grasp the subtler meanings.
I went through the three later-each with a teacher who understood what the books were about-and walked away with some very different understandings.


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"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 12:08:57 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
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Status: offline 		Maybe you should have asked that question in your OP then.

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vML

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 12:21:03 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Initially I did think to do so, but decided against it on the grounds of I just wanted to know the purpose of these venerable writings and saw no harm in just asking. I added my interest later because I sort of got the feeling that some thought I was up to no good regarding this subject matter.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 12:32:06 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		In part, a legal and ethical code to govern a society.

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 12:37:12 PM   
IronBear


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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		No need for explanations. You are unique (as we all are) and part of a unique species. Revel old chap in your uniqueness. Someone comments you should have .... or you shouldn't have.... You only need two replies:
  1. I choose to (or not to) because I can.
  2. It was my right alone to make that choice.
Any further bitching, wailing or gnashing of teeth need only be ignored (perhaps after you stop laughing at their ineffectual responses of you asserting yourself). Just remember the voice from the burning bush ... INRI.. I Am What I Am or I Am That I Am. It also applies to each one of us literally.


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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 12:45:26 PM   
vincentML


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Status: offline 		Okay, accepting that. Does not god instruct Josua to kill all the male inhabitants of Jericho and rape the maidens and doesn't Lot offer his daughters up to strangers passing through? And elsewhere aren't witches to be stoned to death?

I know I am being selective but you asked in the broadest of terms.

Are these then manuals of moral guidance? I would hope not.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 12:52:05 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Then what is their purpose in this present age where we know things written therein are just plain out of order and against many country's laws. I hold regarding the Qur'an, because in Islamic countries, a lot of their laws are directly from their holy book. Which is actually in a way good, because believers know the law before they commit a crime against it, they be good and they need not fear the law. Is Jewish law based on the Torah ? Also how much of our, meaning your law is based on the Bible ?

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? - 6/7/2010 12:53:37 PM   
IronBear


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Status: offline 		If such things were at that time acceptable by that society it would be moral guidance. By the way, no where in the bible (Original versions and not the freely translated copies use by different sects now) does it say a witch should be put to death in any manner. The mistranslation from the Hebrew into Greek, later Greek into French and later still French into English is wrong in a numb er of places which is why I prefer to have copies of the original texts in all esoteric matters (or access to them) The Hebrew word for poisoner was mistranslated into Witch.   I do believe old chap you are falling into the common error of overlaying your arguments with your personal morality and thus all else is wrong. You could pop over to the Poly Forum and look at the strong debate on "Bedouin Wives" where I dealt with precisely that situation. 

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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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