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RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 9:29:00 PM   
GraciousLady


Posts: 529
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddysInkedSlut

quote:

ORIGINAL: GraciousLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

If this was a fully consensual M/s relationship, I would agree with you.  But I got the feeling that the slave did not know what he was getting into when he signed the contract.  He made it clear that it was not simply that specific punishment that he objected to, it was that the dynamic contained any punishment at all.

I did not suggest that he get out of the punishment, but to renegotiate the entire relationship dynamic.



I think a lot of the problems with the couple who spawned this thread is their age. Both are pretty young and likely lack life expierence. It's a huge mess IMO and at ages 18 and 20 they should just go home to their respective parents (if they can) and grow up a bit more.


Wow! That is quite judgmental and really harsh. I know alot of adults who are far older than these two who have made worse mistakes when first entering this lifestyle. Age doesn't mean squat when it comes to life experience we are all new at some point. Hell I was married at 17, so to say these two should go home to their parents is a bit naive on YOUR part. Perhaps you need to go home to your mommy and daddy.


My parents are dead. And please, hold your personal insults. As a mother of young adults older than these 2 I assure you they are both struggling with imaturity and a serious lack of life expierence. As a lady of 53 years I would never behave in the way those 2 did. Even if I had no idea what was going on I would never tear at my partner in this way.

(in reply to DaddysInkedSlut)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 10:08:25 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		NOT in response to the situation in the other thread, because I do happen to think that those two young adults really don't have a good grasp on what a D/s dynamic entails.  I think what they have is a mess.  I wouldn't be in a position to say if they really know what they are doing or not.

In an established dynamic such as My own, clip absolutely could refuse a punishment.  However, it had better be related in some way to territory that would be covered on his hard limit list.  For example, he has a severe aversion to sudden loud noises due to all of the time he's served in combat.  Therefore, if I would decide that I was going to punish him by cracking a whip near his head, he absolutely can refuse that.  What he can't do, and still remain collared to Me, is refuse a punishment based on nothing more than he doesn't want to be punished.  For example, he hates essay writing, but it isn't going to harm him.  Refusing to write the essay to My satisfaction means My collar comes off his neck and he's no longer owned by Me.


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(in reply to GraciousLady)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 10:27:16 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheSubMale
If a slave has signed him/her self away completely to there mistress in a contract stating they have "No safewords, Their body, mind, and soul belongs completely to the mistress, and that they will accept any punishment given from the mistress with out arguing"..shouldn't the mistress be able to do what ever she has to do to make sure the slave is punished?


Such a contract is not legally enforceable, and depends entirely on continued consent from both parties.  But then, so does the relationship itself.


quote:

What would you mistresses do with a slave who refuses to accept his whipping?


Re-negotiate the relationship, and very possibly dissolve it, because it would become obvious at that point that my partner had been deceiving either me or himself or both.  I don't want partners who lack the ability negotiate as responsible adults with a good degree of realism and self-knowledge, and who are consequently unable to keep their agreements.  That is not responsible adult behavior, and I don't do D/s with people who are not adults. 


quote:

I believe the mistress has a right to argue with them, or try & force the whipping due to them being in a slave/mistress relationship..It just honestly ruins everything, if the slave says no after he already signed away his rights.


I doubt I would bother arguing.  I expect my partners to be responsible, self-knowledgeable adults who are able to clearly communicate their needs and boundaries.  It's fine if their feelings change and evolve over time - we can discuss that as it comes up.  But if I find out that they've actually been negotiating from fantasyland and that nothing they've said about what they want out of the relationship is real or true or honest, it's probably going to end things.  Not because they wouldn't take a spanking, but because they had serious problems with honesty, communication, negotiation and responsibility for living up to the agreements they make.  Those are fundamental dealbreakers for me.


quote:

But i think a good mistress should not accept any of the slaves tantrums, and still dish out the punishment without sending him home.


It would destroy trust and respect for me, and probably destroy the relationship.  If I don't trust my partner to be honest and forthcoming from the get-go about what the relationship agreement is, and to genuinely want to be in the relationship they said they wanted to be in, we have far more serious problems than a whipping is going to solve. 

I'm actually okay with having a submissive partner who says up front that they do not want a punishment dynamic or a 24/7 relationship.  That is being an honest and responsible adult about your needs and limits in the relationship.  I would absolutely not be okay with someone who agreed to having one or even pushed for having one, and then suddenly and unilaterally tried to change the rules.  That is not being an honest or responsible adult, and that's the part that is the deal breaker for me. 


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(in reply to TheSubMale)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Refusing slave... - 6/12/2010 1:38:40 AM   
DaddysInkedSlut


Posts: 1837
Joined: 5/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GraciousLady

My parents are dead. And please, hold your personal insults. As a mother of young adults older than these 2 I assure you they are both struggling with imaturity and a serious lack of life expierence. As a lady of 53 years I would never behave in the way those 2 did. Even if I had no idea what was going on I would never tear at my partner in this way.



If you don't want people giving what you dish out then perhaps you should rethink what you say. I found what you said insulting not only to these 2 people but to anyone younger than yourself. (which includes myself) And as I said everyone is new at some point and we all have made mistakes some more harmful to others. No one is perfect or flawless in that not even you. Trust me.

< Message edited by DaddysInkedSlut -- 6/12/2010 1:41:21 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Refusing slave... - 6/12/2010 11:40:02 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		LNT, I would probably be willing to give a potential submissive who had no real-time experience more slack, since I'm very much aware that something that sounds hot in fantasy won't necessarily translate well to reality. I would hold myself more responsible for the breakdown in communication and expectations than I would him, since I do have some experience in this area. I wouldn't take on a slave who had no experience in that role, with a contract, but rather would ease into it and build the structure more slowly with someone who was new. However, if they outright lied to me, or were not openminded and willing to explore, or unable to express their feelings and otherwise communicate and participate in the process, I would have to let him go.

(in reply to DaddysInkedSlut)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Refusing slave... - 6/12/2010 11:59:28 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		A naive 18 year old with no knowledge of what he's agreeing to? That's not informed consent in my book. There was no education, no explanation, no understanding, no learning curve. Just someone older getting her kink on the expense of his well being.

Time for him to move back home, imo.

Contract or not, it's a relationship. Either both of you are happy or the relationship will eventually fail. And that's the bottom line. In the referred to thread the mistress didn't care about him being happy. Which doesn't put her in running for dominant of the year in my book.


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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Refusing slave... - 6/12/2010 8:55:54 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

LNT, I would probably be willing to give a potential submissive who had no real-time experience more slack, since I'm very much aware that something that sounds hot in fantasy won't necessarily translate well to reality.


I would too, but then I would never agree to do 24/7 no safeword with someone that inexperienced.  At the most we'd be lightly scening.  Methinks that may be where the problem lies; both people's eyes may well have been bigger than their tummies.



_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 27
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