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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:06:38 PM   
Lockit


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Plasticine, is it mind control or manipulation and coercion? Talent/skill/gift or parlour trick?


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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:09:51 PM   
crazyml


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Fuckit - I'm going to have a stab at this one.


My first reply was going to be

"Plasticine, look into my eyes... This is not the forum you are looking for"

Just to see if my mind control expertise came close to yours.

But instead...

First - Mr P, welcome to the boards!

This is a courageous (or foolish) first post - and your handling of the vigorous responses you can expect to say will help us all decide which category you fall into.

I have to admit that right up front, my jackass detector did go off. In fact it blew a fuse. But, I'm unplugging it for now.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

Hello.

I was hoping to get some opinions from experienced Doms on an issue that I take very seriously.  I am not going to explain how to control someone's mind, nor should anyone else.  Those who understand will know how it is done.  It is also how sicko predators do their business, so we must let that information lie where it does.


Per leadership's comment - Mind control is pretty much accepted as b/s. That said, there are hosts of examples of people using a combination of charisma, coercion, and CBT/NLP techniques to control others. We've got Cults (typically lead by charismatic whackos), we've got those situations where people remain in abusive relationships etc etc.

So, while I applaud your injunction to us all not to share our Mind Control secrets - I'm really not sure there are any secrets.

quote:




People submit to me too easily.  I mean too easily for their own good.  That was true in my vanilla life, but I had no idea.


I'm playing a super straight bat with this one - despite the klaxon that's going off in my head - and say that it seems as if you have a huge amount of charisma, and you're adept at applying (either consciously or unconsciously) CBT/NLP techniques.

quote:



  Now that I realize what I am and can wield it on purpose I am able to take the willing into trance almost by accident.


First - a question when you say "I realize what I am" - could you tell us what you mean?

Second, if you can take the willing into a trance almost by accident, then get thee thither to an agent and get your ass onto the television - top hypnotists take many years to hone their skills to this level.

If you've not had years of training, I'm guessing you must be some kind of savant - which isn't beyond the bounds of possibility.

On my first NLP course I realised that I've been doing "NLP" unconsciously for years - not because I'm "gifted" but because (I guess) I seem to have learnt over time by trial and error that certain behaviours (eg always compliment the check-in clerk at the airport) produce better results than others (eg Bellowing at the check-in clerk that I'm exec plat and if she doesn't upgrade me right now I'm going to be pissed) - Clearly my Mind Control skills are nothing like as good as yours.

I've also done some palm reading (which is of course a parlour game) and some hypnosis) if I were any good at either of these, I'd be too busy preparing for my next show at the Venetian to be posting on these boards, but I've had some success with both - And sure, I've found some people who are extremely suggestible.

I also know that if I tried the old razzle-dazzle with any of the regular female posters on this board, I'd be told to fuck off

(You know who you are!)



quote:



  I am extremely honest. I understand Mind Control and I understand my responsibility as a Dom.  When I am dominating I can feel the wave the sub is on and I understand that I am in control of the empathy we share in that space,



This suggests very high levels of empathy - really important in NLP/CBT/Hypnosis. And yes, it can feel like a "power" - but (with respect) I would caution you to be really sure of your level of expertise before writing a post that sort of implies that you're some kind of jedi (which you may indeed be, and if you are, I apologise).

quote:



I also understand that this is a HUGE responsibility.  I do not want to brainwash anyone, I am a protector not a predator. 



Due to my personality and skill set I am inside people's heads before I even know it, even in casual conversation.


You see... I just don't know what to make of this statement. That klaxon is going off again - and that's even after I've pulled the plug out - I'm tempted to ask you

"Can you tell what I'm thinking now?"

It shouldn't be difficult, and I'll bet a fiver that SunshineMiss, Lally, Leadership and half a dozen others would be able to tell you.

If you'd said "As a result of my personality and skill set I find that I'm very often in a situation where I can get inside people's heads, even in a casual conversation", I may not be having to fish around for another fuse for the old JD.

Are you really sure that you can see inside everybody's head? most people's? many people's?

quote:


I can't not be this way.


What way?

quote:



I am a Dom.  How far is too far?  Are there steps that one can take to deliberately prevent induction? 



So... are you saying that you find people falling to a hypnotic trance just as a matter of course when you talk to them? Even when you're not consciously trying?

I'm..... let's say "sceptical" about the truth of this statement. Does it happen often? Can you describe a situation in which this has actually occurred? (don't give away any of those secrets mind you!).

If you're as smart as you believe you are, I cannot imagine you'd not be able to adapt your behaviour in a way that prevents passers-by slumping into trance every time you appear.

quote:



How do I be certain that my moral compass will not be skewed by my sadism?

Thank you.



That's a really interesting general question that is applicable to all sadists I think.

My best answer is - do exactly the same thing with your moral compass as you'd do with a real compass - swing your moral compass regularly, don't let the scene, relationships or fantasy cause deviation - and when you think it may have done, then swing that compass again.



[edited for formatting]

< Message edited by crazyml -- 6/12/2010 12:17:12 PM >

(in reply to Plasticine)
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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:10:26 PM   
Plasticine


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Jeff,  we are on the same page.  In that respect this thread is simply about putting the microscope on myself, and my concerns that I will fail someone at a critical moment. 

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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:12:10 PM   
crazyml


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Thanks for having a dig about - I'll go google.

(Was curious about which "Singer" you were referring to - not Peter Singer the the philo?)

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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:21:44 PM   
leadership527


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It was Margaret Singer. She's the wacko psychologist who went off the deep end with cults and brainwashing in the early 80's.

@Plasticine
Well, I don't have any sage words of advice for you then other than "don't fuck up" because it really hurts when you do. Inescapably, of course, you WILL fuck up and then you will have to bear the burden of responsibility for that. In a whole lot of ways, actual dominance and actual leadership really suck which is why most people don't want to do it.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:21:58 PM   
Plasticine


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Crazyml,

I'm not going to go all Postal with quote nesting here it gives me a headache.  It seems you understand almost completely what I am talking about, I am just more persuasive.

It is both hypnosis and a joke.  It is manipulation coercion and domination.  There is no reason to extricate those parts from the sum whole of the ability to influence others. Is there?

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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:24:19 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

People submit to me too easily.  I mean too easily for their own good.  That was true in my vanilla life, but I had no idea.  Now that I realize what I am and can wield it on purpose I am able to take the willing into trance almost by accident.


I would not submit to you. Most people that hold that line of thought fail to recognize that the people yielding are being drawn by the individual. Someone that didn't feel that internal pull would easily dismiss your influences.

quote:

I do not want to brainwash anyone, I am a protector not a predator. Due to my personality and skill set I am inside people's heads before I even know it, even in casual conversation.


The interesting thing about people that really do this is that they never talk about it. In fact, the most adept are pulling your strings without your knowledge. Consciously of course.

quote:

I can't not be this way. I am a Dom.  How far is too far?  Are there steps that one can take to deliberately prevent induction?  How do I be certain that my moral compass will not be skewed by my sadism?


Simply put you're not infiltrating me unless I want to be invaded. Now I happen to enjoy that sort of thing. And I've encountered people with some skill in that regard. Nonetheless they were unable to wield control over me in that manner because I had no desire to acquiesce.

~porcelaine


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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:25:52 PM   
Lockit


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Wait... if you can't control the power you have, how can you not fuck up? The question shouldn't be how dangerous could this be... but more... how do I control/refine/stop this power I have and brag about?


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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:29:03 PM   
Plasticine


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You cannot "hypnotise" the unwilling, there is no question.  This stuff doesn't work on me either.  This isn't a contest though.  I am relating my own experiences.  Not asking whether some random person who has never met me thinks they would submit.  That's not very useful information really. Thank You.

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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:33:14 PM   
Plasticine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Wait... if you can't control the power you have, how can you not fuck up? The question shouldn't be how dangerous could this be... but more... how do I control/refine/stop this power I have and brag about?



You are not a pleasant poster.

(in reply to Lockit)
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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:39:09 PM   
Lockit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Wait... if you can't control the power you have, how can you not fuck up? The question shouldn't be how dangerous could this be... but more... how do I control/refine/stop this power I have and brag about?



You are not a pleasant poster.



You are correct, I am not sometimes. I've never said what people want me to say. The thing is, if you believe you have this power and it could be dangerous and with the things you have said... it is dangerous in your opinion, thus your questions. The question should be, how do I temper myself and my power to assure that I don't hurt anyone. I do have a hard time believing that a parlour trick can be that dangerous. (Within this topic anyway.)

You seem a bit helpless with your powers and yet you have all the answers.


_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to Plasticine)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:44:21 PM   
Plasticine


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quote:

You are correct, I am not sometimes. I've never said what people want me to say. The thing is, if you believe you have this power and it could be dangerous and with the things you have said... it is dangerous in your opinion, thus your questions. The question should be, how do I temper myself and my power to assure that I don't hurt anyone. I do have a hard time believing that a parlour trick can be that dangerous. (Within this topic anyway.)

You seem a bit helpless with your powers and yet you have all the answers.



I realize I have power and responsibility, I come here and say so and express my very considerate and rational concerns about it and ask specific questions.  And you think I do this because... I know the answers to my concerns but want to brag to strangers?

Taking it upon yourself to heckle me is childish, destructive and pointless.  Well done.

(in reply to Lockit)
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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:48:49 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Wait... if you can't control the power you have, how can you not fuck up? The question shouldn't be how dangerous could this be... but more... how do I control/refine/stop this power I have and brag about?

Well, if you're referring specifically to what I wrote, what I meant was that I have no choice but to see most situations in terms of possibilities and I can influence this path or that path. I don't have a choice about having the knowledge. So there is no "stopping" this power, there is only using it to the best effect.

By the way, I myself would not have used the word "power" and I certainly don't brag about it.

quote:

porcelaine:
Someone that didn't feel that internal pull would easily dismiss your influences.

That sounds more like a bdsm-ism than my actual fact. One doesn't "easily dismiss" people who are highly influential and charismatic. Nor do I need any particular "internal pull". I'm struggling to figure out if what I'm talking about and what plasticine is talking about are the same thing or not... but to hear him tell the story, it sounds about like the questions I struggled with at the age of 25. If he's talking about the same things that I am, then consent is not required, nor is willingness or any particular internal pull. As you correctly said, In fact, the most adept are pulling your strings without your knowledge. Consciously of course. although again, I might quibble with the "pulling your strings" metaphor.

I think at this point though, I'm bailing out of this thread. I just can't see how honest discussions of this topic are not going to be horribly misconstrued by this audience.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Lockit)
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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:55:50 PM   
Lockit


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Leadership, you have email.

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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 12:56:31 PM   
Plasticine


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Jeff wins the thread, thank you sir.


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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 1:04:31 PM   
Lockit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

quote:

You are correct, I am not sometimes. I've never said what people want me to say. The thing is, if you believe you have this power and it could be dangerous and with the things you have said... it is dangerous in your opinion, thus your questions. The question should be, how do I temper myself and my power to assure that I don't hurt anyone. I do have a hard time believing that a parlour trick can be that dangerous. (Within this topic anyway.)

You seem a bit helpless with your powers and yet you have all the answers.



I realize I have power and responsibility, I come here and say so and express my very considerate and rational concerns about it and ask specific questions.  And you think I do this because... I know the answers to my concerns but want to brag to strangers?

Taking it upon yourself to heckle me is childish, destructive and pointless.  Well done.



How can you expect to be taken seriously when you call your power a parlour trick? And then act as if it is so powerful it could be dangerous. Maybe if you could explain yourself better, it would be easier to take you seriously.

Is it dangerous to be influential in a persons life? Yes, if you are barking up the wrong trees. Is it dangerous to think you have power to do things you didn't even want to do and before you can control it? I would have to say yes, but that is a personal opinion, especially if the one with the power thinks they could be dangerous. I don't see your questions as having a real d/s connection as you are presenting it. When others have commented, you seemed to validate what you have said with their take on things or words.

I still don't get how a parlour trick can be that powerful or dangerous. That isn't a heckle.




_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 1:07:39 PM   
Plasticine


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Look I am being completely serious that this is a dangerous parlour trick.  It is a "trick" that gets a lot of women abused every year.  I am NOT going to explain it here.

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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 1:14:38 PM   
marie2


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I would say that the "danger" might be your own. And that you shouldn't underestimate the submissive. Maybe you're being mind-controlled right back. Maybe you're dealing with someone who has studied NLP herself and will recognize what you're doing. Or maybe you're just dealing with someone who has your number and is one step ahead of you. You just never know.

There isn't much more fascinating to me than a good chess game of a mindfuck, but don't assume your "opponent" has no strategy of her own.

You're probably not nearly as dangerous as you think you are. Just be yourself, and if you're not acting in dishonor, let it all play out however it's meant to.


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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 1:15:50 PM   
littlewonder


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LOL..this is a funny thread.

Mind control? Hardly.

I'm guessing you meet and are attracted to women who will do anything at all for you because they're the "abused" type and easily manipulate and think that you're hot and they'll never find another as hot as you so again they'll do anything at all for you.

Maybe you should take a look at yourself and who you attract and why.

(in reply to Plasticine)
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RE: The dangers of mind control. - 6/12/2010 1:19:43 PM   
Plasticine


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quote:

I would say that the "danger" might be your own. And that you shouldn't underestimate the submissive. Maybe you're being mind-controlled right back. Maybe you're dealing with someone who has studied NLP herself and will recognize what you're doing. Or maybe you're just dealing with someone who has your number and is one step ahead of you. You just never know.

There isn't much more fascinating to me than a good chess game of a mindfuck, but don't assume your "opponent" has no strategy of her own.

You're probably not nearly as dangerous as you think you are. Just be yourself, and if you're not acting in dishonor, let it all play out however it's meant to.


You make some good points.  I love it when I meet resistance; I want the sub to be as aware and wily as possible because I love the challenge.  Unfortunately as you probably know, past a certain point the competition gets thin.

(in reply to marie2)
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