RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist?

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 1:13:46 PM)
quote: Tazzy, what I am saying is that what you present is a strawman arguement. That is no different to the way someone suggested that all people who follow religion have lower IQs... again... strawman. Again - it only shows that both sides of the camp are subjected to strawman arguements over and over and over... If i mention the word, belief... its automatically viewed as different than the definition. If i use the word faith... again... it cant possibly be the same. Why? Because it doesnt fit into the argument. Talk about strawman! I dont ask them to believe. Frankly, i dont care that they do or not. I do resent being labled as stupid because one of them, or some, or most, or all, cant seem to believe as i do. That, again, isnt my problem nor something i care to debate. What i have seen on these boards, and specifically on this thread, is a whole lot of intolerance from some of those who claim to be atheists. (claim because i have no other knowledge of such beyond their stating they are). And the same group whining about how theists use strawman arguments. Hypocracy at its finest!

Moonhead -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 1:20:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail and now the vexing question, since we did not see his voice in moses, does that mean that Burt Lancaster was not a circus performer prior to being a movie star? You'll be saying Harold Lloyd wasn't a quarterback next.

mnottertail -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 1:22:30 PM)
I think that train has left the track my friend, Charlie Chaplin was running the plays from over here, and taking it offa Fatty Arbuckle.

Moonhead -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 1:32:53 PM)
Fair enough.

RCdc -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 1:34:01 PM)
I do understand what you are suggesting. But the problem with this thought is that there are also those that don't like eggs not because of the taste or anything like that, but just because they don't like eggs. I'm like that with offal. Would not matter if I tasted it, I just do not like it. quote: If they weren't willing to occasionally test their "belief" that they dislike that food, how would they ever find out how good it is as an adult? Which could be an interesting point if it were not for the reason that... you cannot test God. Not because you 'can not' but because you 'can not'. I am sure you understand what I mean (I hope!). It's not a physical 'cannot' but more an instructional 'cannot'. At least as far as the christian God goes. the.dark.

mnottertail -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 1:34:05 PM)
And that right there folks is about as specious an argument as I can make on behalf of my god.

Moonhead -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 1:37:31 PM)
Oh, you prefer Harold Lloyd to Chaplin yourself, then?

mnottertail -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 1:38:45 PM)
I think that his clockwork was as orange as a welshmans, and chaplin was more a disraeli gears kinda guy.

RCdc -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 1:49:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What i have seen on these boards, and specifically on this thread, is a whole lot of intolerance from some of those who claim to be atheists. (claim because i have no other knowledge of such beyond their stating they are). And the same group whining about how theists use strawman arguments. Hypocracy at its finest! I am not going to sit here and say you are incorrect on that Tazzy. This entire thread is ironic and full of hypocrisy! brainiacwaves stated this... quote: Treasure threw out the first strawman by trying to tell me what I as an atheist believed, and she got it wrong. I, Vincent, GotSteel and others immediately jumped on this to correct her and thus the remainder of that thread was derailed so you and Treasure (and a couple others) could debate the meanings of "faith" and "belief." You think that they are whinning and being hypocrites and it has been noted that they do the same. Like I have said, the only person I have never been strawmanned by or seen doing it is vinnie - no offense to brainiac because I honestly can't be sure either way - but I have seen Gotsteel do it - again no offense but it happens when people talk about an emotive subject - whatever it is. I've been accused of strawmanning in the past - I probably have! Is MrFirm strawmanning? Actually - I don't believe he is on purpose. But that's just subjective and blah... personal yanno? But the core of this thread is a little silly in the 'it brings a bit of a smile to my face' kinda silly because atheists strawman just as much as anyone else and to create a thread that singles out atheists as some put upon section of peoples just leaves that kind of huh? feeling. Many people strawman. Period. the.dark.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 1:52:31 PM)
You will notice i never stated i have not. In fact, i have deliberately, on more than one occassion. Sometimes its meant to bring a poster up short and make them actually think. Smack someone with their own form of hypocracy and you, sometimes, get beautiful results.

RCdc -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 1:56:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl You will notice i never stated i have not. In fact, i have deliberately, on more than one occassion. Sometimes its meant to bring a poster up short and make them actually think. Smack someone with their own form of hypocracy and you, sometimes, get beautiful results. So you don't find anything slightly uncomfortable with saying that people are hypocrites, when you are/may be one yourself? What is the beautiful result you get? the.dark.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 2:05:30 PM)
The ability to clear cobwebs and actually think about what you post. Some call it playing a devils advocate. I prefer to think of it as showing them a mirror. Its can draw someone up short to hear their own views expressed in a slightly different way. You may call that hypocritical. And i suppose it would be.. if i believed in such things. Example.. i stated earlier that atheists state their is no god. Truth is, only a small number do. From what i observed, read and discussed, most just dont believe in a god or gods. But stating it as i did drew up a few posters short enough to ask me to explain what i meant.

Moonhead -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 2:11:27 PM)
Isn't the argument more that there's no evidence for a God, and a number of reasons why there isn't one? There's certainly plenty of circumstantial evidence that parts of the Bible are untrue, and if that's bollocks, then the Christian God goes out of the window.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 2:12:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RCdc quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl You will notice i never stated i have not. In fact, i have deliberately, on more than one occassion. Sometimes its meant to bring a poster up short and make them actually think. Smack someone with their own form of hypocracy and you, sometimes, get beautiful results. So you don't find anything slightly uncomfortable with saying that people are hypocrites, when you are/may be one yourself? What is the beautiful result you get? the.dark. It is not the hypocrisy that bugs me, it is the attacks on threads that shouldn't even concern Atheists as a way to insult people who believe differently... Example: I started what I considered a philosophical thread about what time means if there is no such thing as time in relation to life after death. I wanted the thread to spark thoughtful responses, for people to digest that through the lens of whatever belief system they have... instead several Atheists used it as an excuse to shit all over what other posters had contributed as far as their thoughts and feelings on the topic were concerned... I do not go into churches and denounce people's beliefs. I don't go into free thought conventions (and they do have them) and denounce those people. I expect respect when I want to talk about stuff of a spiritual nature. I have very little respect for the Atheists that used that thread as an excuse to shit on others.... it shows they are classless... and bullies

RCdc -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 2:13:44 PM)
Leaving aside your reference to Cline - You stated in clear words earlier that you have never labled a whole group of individuals anything. A few moments later you stated that atheists have faith. You don't find that hypocritical? the.dark.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 2:15:07 PM)
Can you honestly say that atheists have no faith? In anything? Anything at all? Or are you doing as they have done and utilizing, out of the many definitions there are for that word, the one related to religion?

juliaoceania -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 2:17:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Isn't the argument more that there's no evidence for a God, and a number of reasons why there isn't one? There's certainly plenty of circumstantial evidence that parts of the Bible are untrue, and if that's bollocks, then the Christian God goes out of the window. Are you saying that Christians own the concept of a deity?

RCdc -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 2:22:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Can you honestly say that atheists have no faith? In anything? Anything at all? Or are you doing as they have done and utilizing, out of the many definitions there are for that word, the one related to religion? I might judge people by my standards - judgement rocks! BUT - I don't judge other people and then impose or force them on others. So, essentially... I don't believe that you or I, as non atheists can be correct in saying that all atheists have faith. I cannot believe that you nor I can say they have no faith either. I'd feel just the same if an atheist told me that I must be a christian because I believe in God. Tazzy, with all respects - I will and have answered your question - will you respond to mine? quote: Leaving aside your reference to Cline - You stated in clear words earlier that you have never labled a whole group of individuals anything. A few moments later you stated that atheists have faith. You don't find that hypocritical? the.dark.

popeye1250 -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 2:28:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel When an atheist explains his position around here there are a number of people who explain to said atheist that isn't in fact their position and presume to attribute a different position to said atheist. How do you people consider that to be remotely reasonable? It certainly wouldn't be for any other group. For instance it would be ridiculous for me to say to a Christian no, no, no that's not your position; you believe that: The earth is flat and sits immovable upon pillars. Isaiah 40:22 KJV, 1 Samuel 2:8 KJV, Psalm 93:1 KJV Unicorns are real. Job 39:9-12 KJV *You need to murder everyone in town and their livestock if a single person in the town isn't Christian. Deuteronomy 13:13-19 KJV How does doing this to an atheist make it any different? Because they're "free agents?"

rulemylife -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 2:29:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania It is not the hypocrisy that bugs me, it is the attacks on threads that shouldn't even concern Atheists as a way to insult people who believe differently... Example: I started what I considered a philosophical thread about what time means if there is no such thing as time in relation to life after death. I wanted the thread to spark thoughtful responses, for people to digest that through the lens of whatever belief system they have... instead several Atheists used it as an excuse to shit all over what other posters had contributed as far as their thoughts and feelings on the topic were concerned... I do not go into churches and denounce people's beliefs. I don't go into free thought conventions (and they do have them) and denounce those people. I expect respect when I want to talk about stuff of a spiritual nature. I have very little respect for the Atheists that used that thread as an excuse to shit on others.... it shows they are classless... and bullies No, your thread was as disingenuous as you are being right now. You create a thread about a possible afterlife, and being the wide-eyed innocent that you claim to be, are suddenly astonished to find religion being discussed.

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