RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist?

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domiguy -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:50:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Many atheists take exception with them, brainiac. But to take exception does not negate their existence. And i have pointed out, as written by Cline, that there are atheist christians, as there are atheist jews. If you need me too, i can go back and find the post. Don't bother...There is something wrong with you...It's not in an awful way like you should be 100% avoided...just mostly avoided. You really don't get it. If I believe the sun is going to rise tomorrow does not mean that I worship the sun. If it threatened to go out due to my lack of faith then I assure you I would be immediately sucking the day's dick. Pretty good, brainiac?

juliaoceania -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:51:07 AM)
quote: just like I would take exception with any Christian who claims they don't believe Jesus is God. Unfortunately you are wrong... this is the problem with telling other people what they believe Unitarianism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This article is about Unitarianism as a Christian theology. For other uses, see Unitarianism (disambiguation). [hide] Part of a series on Christianity Unitarianism is a nontrinitarian Christian theology which holds that God is only one person, in contrast to the doctrine of the Trinity (God as three persons).[1] Unitarianism (capitalized) has come to be associated with certain liberal Christian beliefs. The uncapitalized term, unitarianism, while denoting adherence to the teaching of the singular personhood of God, includes beliefs generally similar to those of conservative, evangelical Christians (apart from the Trinity).[citation needed] This form of unitarianism is more commonly called nontrinitarianism. There are also nontrinitarians who maintain that God is a single person, but also that Jesus is that God, and who therefore are distinct from unitarians, who reject the divinity of Jesu

domiguy -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:53:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: just like I would take exception with any Christian who claims they don't believe Jesus is God. Unfortunately you are wrong... this is the problem with telling other people what they believe Unitarianism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This article is about Unitarianism as a Christian theology. For other uses, see Unitarianism (disambiguation). [hide] Part of a series on Christianity Unitarianism is a nontrinitarian Christian theology which holds that God is only one person, in contrast to the doctrine of the Trinity (God as three persons).[1] Unitarianism (capitalized) has come to be associated with certain liberal Christian beliefs. The uncapitalized term, unitarianism, while denoting adherence to the teaching of the singular personhood of God, includes beliefs generally similar to those of conservative, evangelical Christians (apart from the Trinity).[citation needed] This form of unitarianism is more commonly called nontrinitarianism. There are also nontrinitarians who maintain that God is a single person, but also that Jesus is that God, and who therefore are distinct from unitarians, who reject the divinity of Jesu Julia you are splitting hairs, one of the staples of Christian philosophy is the acceptance of the J-guy as your savior in order to avoid the river Styx.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:54:03 AM)
quote: rational operating beliefs These were your words... your description, yes? quote: You know your world view better than I do, I'm just reflecting your stuff back to you. I see what you are trying to do intellectually and I understand why. I'm just telling you that it doesn't work that way. You are trying to solve the puzzle the wrong way. I know my world view, it is extremely eclectic. What you are reflecting is what you believe to be my world view. And exactly what is it you believe i am trying to do? A puzzle may have more than one solution. If you believe i am doing it wrong, and you believe you have the right solution, then by all means, become the teacher.

domiguy -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:55:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: just like I would take exception with any Christian who claims they don't believe Jesus is God. Unfortunately you are wrong... this is the problem with telling other people what they believe Unitarianism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This article is about Unitarianism as a Christian theology. For other uses, see Unitarianism (disambiguation). [hide] Part of a series on Christianity Unitarianism is a nontrinitarian Christian theology which holds that God is only one person, in contrast to the doctrine of the Trinity (God as three persons).[1] Unitarianism (capitalized) has come to be associated with certain liberal Christian beliefs. The uncapitalized term, unitarianism, while denoting adherence to the teaching of the singular personhood of God, includes beliefs generally similar to those of conservative, evangelical Christians (apart from the Trinity).[citation needed] This form of unitarianism is more commonly called nontrinitarianism. There are also nontrinitarians who maintain that God is a single person, but also that Jesus is that God, and who therefore are distinct from unitarians, who reject the divinity of Jesu A question for you, young lady...Are you possibly an Athiest or agnostic due to your leanings towards Taoism?

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:55:22 AM)
quote: just like I would take exception with any Christian who claims they don't believe Jesus is God. I don't believe Jesus is/was God and I'm not a Unitarian.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:55:36 AM)
quote: You really don't get it. If I believe the sun is going to rise tomorrow does not mean that I worship the sun. Here is where your inner moron comes out. No one says you have to worship anything simply because you believe it to be true. [8\|]

domiguy -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:56:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4 quote: just like I would take exception with any Christian who claims they don't believe Jesus is God. I don't believe Jesus is/was God. Then that pretty much makes you a non-Christian.

domiguy -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:57:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: You really don't get it. If I believe the sun is going to rise tomorrow does not mean that I worship the sun. Here is where your inner moron comes out. No one says you have to worship anything simply because you believe it to be true. [8\|] Good, than the same must go for things that I believe to be false....And That Folks...pretty much wraps up the conversation... I win again. Right?

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:58:05 AM)
No it doesnt. Is There a Christian Atheism? Examples of Atheism among Christians: As a descendent of Judaism, Christianity is also a religion founded upon belief in a single creator god. Atheism is not just rejected, but considered a sin. There are a few people who consider themselves Christians even though they have rejected belief in the existence of any gods, including the Christian creator god. They argue that they are Christian atheists in the same way that some Jews are also atheists: they are Christian for largely cultural reasons, but continue to maintain some religious observances — just without references to any gods. http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismquestions/p/AtheistReligion.htm

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:58:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Then that pretty much makes you a non-Christian. It can/could be viewed as such.

brainiacsub -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 10:01:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im not trying to pin down ideas. Im trying to pin down terminology. Oddly enough, you yourself admitted you have a belief.. which is a faith. tazz, have you bothered to look up the definitions of these words yourself or read some of the posts from people who defined them? Faith is belief in something for which one has no evidence. Faith is one type of belief. I believe that my close friends will be there when I need them. This is a reasonable and rational belief based on past behavior. I don't have the same expectations of a stranger. That would be faith. Reasonable, thinking people don't rely on faith to draw conclusions about things. The people who claim that they have faith in their marriages, spouses, children, employment, etc, are misusing the word, or either they are in extremely precarious situations by their own choice.

Plasticine -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 10:02:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: rational operating beliefs These were your words... your description, yes? quote: You know your world view better than I do, I'm just reflecting your stuff back to you. I see what you are trying to do intellectually and I understand why. I'm just telling you that it doesn't work that way. You are trying to solve the puzzle the wrong way. I know my world view, it is extremely eclectic. What you are reflecting is what you believe to be my world view. And exactly what is it you believe i am trying to do? A puzzle may have more than one solution. If you believe i am doing it wrong, and you believe you have the right solution, then by all means, become the teacher. I am being the teacher you just aren't being the pupil. What you are trying to do is take a round worldview and make it square. I have no firm "beliefs" about this and you may stop ascribing that term to me as I have already explained that it is insufficient. I do not have the right solution but neither do you. "Chunk out" and try to be someone else for a minute. I am sorry if my guidance is not in the form that you would prefer, but I did not answer your question to get into a game of bait the atheist. I have shown you courtesy and respect and offered you what I consider very fine reconciliation for your quandary. I will respond to any sincere questions, but you are throwing loaded words around like knives and acting like its nothing. I do not mentor reckless pupils.

brainiacsub -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 10:04:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Many atheists take exception with them, brainiac. But to take exception does not negate their existence. And i have pointed out, as written by Cline, that there are atheist christians, as there are atheist jews. If you need me too, i can go back and find the post. Don't bother...There is something wrong with you...It's not in an awful way like you should be 100% avoided...just mostly avoided. You really don't get it. If I believe the sun is going to rise tomorrow does not mean that I worship the sun. If it threatened to go out due to my lack of faith then I assure you I would be immediately sucking the day's dick. Pretty good, brainiac? lol...you are my hero

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 10:10:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im not trying to pin down ideas. Im trying to pin down terminology. Oddly enough, you yourself admitted you have a belief.. which is a faith. tazz, have you bothered to look up the definitions of these words yourself or read some of the posts from people who defined them? Faith is belief in something for which one has no evidence. Faith is one type of belief. I believe that my close friends will be there when I need them. This is a reasonable and rational belief based on past behavior. I don't have the same expectations of a stranger. That would be faith. Reasonable, thinking people don't rely on faith to draw conclusions about things. The people who claim that they have faith in their marriages, spouses, children, employment, etc, are misusing the word, or either they are in extremely precarious situations by their own choice. So the faith i have when i walk into a room and know that i can perform the duty of delivering a baby or start an IV isnt faith? I dont think about "do i know" i have accepted and have faith in my abilities. You are once again using a limited definition of the term. quote: Main Entry: 1faith Pronunciation: \ˈfāth\ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural faiths \ˈfāths, sometimes ˈfāthz\ Etymology: Middle English feith, from Anglo-French feid, fei, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust — more at bide Date: 13th century 1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions 2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust 3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith> synonyms see belief — on faith : without question <took everything he said on faith> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

brainiacsub -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 10:11:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I have already stated, agreed, and validated the fact that atheists do not have religious faith. How would i be able to turn that into a gotcha moment? You have not validated this because it simply is not a true statement. You might find some dumb source on the Internet who might agree with this, but I would check the sources first. Saying that one is both an Atheist and a Christian is like saying one is both a Christian and a Muslim. Does not compute.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 10:14:27 AM)
quote: am sorry if my guidance is not in the form that you would prefer, but I did not answer your question to get into a game of bait the atheist. I have shown you courtesy and respect and offered you what I consider very fine reconciliation for your quandary. I will respond to any sincere questions, but you are throwing loaded words around like knives and acting like its nothing. I do not mentor reckless pupils. Wow, assume much? I am not trying to bait anyone. I am trying to define a term that seems to be a cource of contention for those of an atheistic persuasion as exampled in this thread and most other religious threads. You used the word belief... rational operating beliefs to be exact. My belief/faith in my abilities are also rational operating beliefs. I gained that knowledge, i used that knowledge thousands of times before, i rely upon that knowledge, and i have the belief/faith that the knowledge will be there when i need it again. If that, to you, is baiting, you have alot to learn about these boards.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 10:16:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I have already stated, agreed, and validated the fact that atheists do not have religious faith. How would i be able to turn that into a gotcha moment? You have not validated this because it simply is not a true statement. You might find some dumb source on the Internet who might agree with this, but I would check the sources first. Saying that one is both an Atheist and a Christian is like saying one is both a Christian and a Muslim. Does not compute. I did check the source. Perhaps you would like to as well. But i am a betting woman, and i have no doubt you wont look. Austin Cline has been actively involved in educating people about atheism, agnosticism, and secular humanism on the Internet for over 15 years. Experience: Austin Cline was a Regional Director for the Council for Secular Humanism and a former Publicity Coordinator for the Campus Freethought Alliance. Austin has also lectured on religion, religious violence, science, and skepticism. Education: Austin Cline holds a Bachelor of Arts from the University of Pennsylvania and a Master of Arts from Princeton University. He also studied for one year each at the University of Zurich and the Ludwig-Maximillian University in Munich, Germany. In America, Germany, and Switzerland, Austin has studied both religion and philosophy. From Austin Cline: Both atheism and agnosticism are neglected in popular culture, despite the popularity of recent books by atheists. When was the last time you saw an openly atheist politician, an article on atheism in a major periodical, or anyone discussing secular humanism as a serious alternative to religion? http://atheism.about.com/bio/Austin-Cline-5577.htm

domiguy -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 10:19:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl No it doesnt. Is There a Christian Atheism? Examples of Atheism among Christians: As a descendent of Judaism, Christianity is also a religion founded upon belief in a single creator god. Atheism is not just rejected, but considered a sin. There are a few people who consider themselves Christians even though they have rejected belief in the existence of any gods, including the Christian creator god. They argue that they are Christian atheists in the same way that some Jews are also atheists: they are Christian for largely cultural reasons, but continue to maintain some religious observances — just without references to any gods. http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismquestions/p/AtheistReligion.htm I don't have time for you and your bullshit. This is beyond you. This is the point of the thread where I believe that I usually tell someone to go fuck themselves.... Go fuck yourself. Ta-Da!!!

Plasticine -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 10:20:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: am sorry if my guidance is not in the form that you would prefer, but I did not answer your question to get into a game of bait the atheist. I have shown you courtesy and respect and offered you what I consider very fine reconciliation for your quandary. I will respond to any sincere questions, but you are throwing loaded words around like knives and acting like its nothing. I do not mentor reckless pupils. Wow, assume much? I am not trying to bait anyone. I am trying to define a term that seems to be a cource of contention for those of an atheistic persuasion as exampled in this thread and most other religious threads. You used the word belief... rational operating beliefs to be exact. My belief/faith in my abilities are also rational operating beliefs. I gained that knowledge, i used that knowledge thousands of times before, i rely upon that knowledge, and i have the belief/faith that the knowledge will be there when i need it again. If that, to you, is baiting, you have alot to learn about these boards. Here is what you do not understand: I don't care whether or not I believe in something. It is meaningless to me. No emotional attachments. I care whether or not it is true! In your concept of things belief is a high standard, a "good thing". I'm saying that in my world belief is worthless, it holds no currency. I can understand your world, why can't you understand mine?

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