RE: A tough case in criminal justice (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/21/2010 9:19:09 AM)

Spoken like a man truly trying to give the most youthful impression possible to others

E




angelikaJ -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/21/2010 10:31:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ


What is concerning to me about this case is that the state did not feel confident in their methods of rehabilitation to let him go earlier than this.


So youve bought the myth of rehabilitation, I see.


To the extent that there is a clear link between child abuse and juvenile offenders, yes.

Edit: spelling




Moonhead -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/21/2010 11:40:24 AM)

Well, the only reason rehabilitation is seen as a myth by Americans is because you have a prison system that's geared purely towards the punitive. It's not like any of your states at=re making any effort to do the other, after all.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/21/2010 4:17:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Well, the only reason rehabilitation is seen as a myth by Americans is because you have a prison system that's geared purely towards the punitive. It's not like any of your states at=re making any effort to do the other, after all.


Why dont you provide some examples of other systems where rehabilitation actually exists.




angelikaJ -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/21/2010 4:36:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Well, the only reason rehabilitation is seen as a myth by Americans is because you have a prison system that's geared purely towards the punitive. It's not like any of your states at=re making any effort to do the other, after all.


Why dont you provide some examples of other systems where rehabilitation actually exists.


Here is an example of what we are doing wrong:
http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/lifestyle.html
and what could be done to fix it.




Politesub53 -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/21/2010 4:48:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

KenDoll, the gift that keeps on giving.


This insult, from a man who cried at being called willbur, is a tad hypocritical. Dont you think.




cadenas -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/21/2010 4:55:33 PM)

These notification laws aren't worth the electrons they are printed with. Only the law-abiding sexual offenders will comply with it; the ones we should be concerned about have any number of alternatives.

- Plea deal. That may have been what happened here. "I admit to murder if you drop the sexual assault". Presto - he's off the hook for notification.
- Simply failing to register. What do you have to lose? Not much if you are planning to commit a crime anyway.
- "Visiting" relatives. That's apparently how the killer of Chelsea King and Amber Dubois got around the notification law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

This is not the other thread, Vince.

California does have laws that not only allow sexual predators to be identified, but requires it. Schmidt, courtesy of having one element of his conviction overturned, may not meet the standard for that. Which in no way changes that he is considered a high to moderate high risk (that's the pshrink verdict, not mine) to engage in further violent acts.




cadenas -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/21/2010 5:11:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Well, the only reason rehabilitation is seen as a myth by Americans is because you have a prison system that's geared purely towards the punitive. It's not like any of your states at=re making any effort to do the other, after all.


Why dont you provide some examples of other systems where rehabilitation actually exists.


New Zealand managed to get the recividism rate down to an amazing 10%. http://www.publiceye.org/defendingjustice/pdfs/factsheets/9-Fact%20Sheet%20-%20US%20vs%20World.pdf

Cuba extensively relies on rehabilitation and reintegration and has a recividism rate of 15%.





willbeurdaddy -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/21/2010 5:44:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Spoken like a man truly trying to give the most youthful impression possible to others

E


huh?




willbeurdaddy -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/21/2010 5:48:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Well, the only reason rehabilitation is seen as a myth by Americans is because you have a prison system that's geared purely towards the punitive. It's not like any of your states at=re making any effort to do the other, after all.


Why dont you provide some examples of other systems where rehabilitation actually exists.


New Zealand managed to get the recividism rate down to an amazing 10%. http://www.publiceye.org/defendingjustice/pdfs/factsheets/9-Fact%20Sheet%20-%20US%20vs%20World.pdf

Cuba extensively relies on rehabilitation and reintegration and has a recividism rate of 15%.




Cuba????? Cuba relies on torture and execution, not rehabilitation and reintegration.

New Zealand I would have to learn more about, however recidivism rates are affected by far more than "rehabilitation".




LadyEllen -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/22/2010 2:55:19 AM)

You have a think Willy m'boy, see if you cant figure it out yourself eh?

In the meantime, just to add a dash more excitement, the murderer formerly known as Jon Venables appeared at the Old Bailey yesterday, charged with 57 counts of making indecent images of children and a handful of counts of distributing them. Venables, now 27, was sentenced to life in the early 90s at the age of 10, having abducted a three year old boy from a shopping centre near Liverpool with his mate and killed him (amongst other things). He was released about ten years ago and given a new identity, whilst all media were slapped with an injunction to prevent them tracking him down and revealing his new name or location.

?

E




Termyn8or -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/22/2010 4:11:40 AM)

FR

Having entered the field of rehab running by the seat of my pants, I am not so sure I should've. We are not talking sex offernders here, but I can tell you that real rehab is alot harder than it looks. Unfortunately agreeing with Ken, notification is not a good thing. I could see circulating pictures, but giving out their address and all that is not fair, because in the end, people can and do change.

But to coax and encourage that change is difficult as you are fighting decades of conditioning. Perhaps more. What made Schmidt how he is ? What kind of people accomplished this ? In so asking, the question comes, how did they get how they got to do such a thing ? Next step is what, the Grandparents ? Keep up that line of reasoning and we'll wind up blaming Adam and Eve.

Recidivism is rampant because the government has no idea how to rehab anyone. In my venture I've found that it takes alot more than meets the eye. What you have to realize first is that the perp thought there was nothing wrong with his actions at the time. It doesn't matter if he was high or drunk. I have a long history of getting high and/or drunk and never even considered raping anyone, let alone an infant. How does something like this even enter someone's mind, no matter what state their mind is in at the time ?

I don't think I could effectively deal with this. I can deal with ex thieves and whores, and those who have exhibited extreme stupidity at the wrong time, but I can't wrap my mind around this.

While I completely understand that the mind is very unlikely to be totally developed by at least 25 years of age, first of all why is that so ? Second of all to develop, I believe that during that stage of life one should be at large, working, paying bills, and consiously deciding not to rip a MFs door off their car for flinging it open right in front of you. Things like that. None of these experiences happen in an institution.

So what do we do with a guy like this ? Keep him forever away from kids ? OK, but then we never know if anything worked to get him to grow out of it. We can never be sure. Maybe a better plan is to force him into an environment with a bunch of kids, supervised of course until he has something akin to a nervous breakdown after some interaction. I know it's not likely to happen. You wouldn't volunteer your kids for such a project would you ?

With an habitual thief for example, you can, in time offer just a little bit of trust. Then they get the concept of earning trust. Not hard to fathom psychologically, but of little or no help in the case of a sex offender. An ex-whore can be taught a sense of self worth, though it takes time. But this scrappin' bitin' hillbilly bitch is putty in my hands. She told me that she has never felt like family before, practically in tears. That was the perfect time to inform her that she is not allowed in the family until she knows how to drive a stickshift. It was good to hear her laugh. And my sinister has a stickshift pickup truck. She will take care of that.

The technique requires constant adaptation as well. It has been taxing to say the least, but the result are coming. We got people actually working, despite this fucked up econony. We got my car keys hanging on the wall. We got my money, smokes and "substance" laying out where anyone can get it, but it is generally untouched. That is trust that was hard earned.

But as much as I can do, I have no idea what to do with a guy like this. Maybe it would be better if they just execute him. I mean for everyone, as well as him. If the remorse hasn't hit him I don't think he is ready to go to Mayberry with the white picket fence. If the remorse actually ever hits him he is likely to be suicidal.

Since people re pretty much treated as chattel by the PTB maybe we just should extend that a bit. No matter how nice your car is you know evenually it goes to the crusher. Some cars go to the crusher at a quite early age, because of fatal problems. A few models come to mind.......

But then is it for us to say that a person is not fit to live in society has no right to life ? What then, exile ? Let them pander their terror elsewhere until another society beheads them or something ? I don't see a hell of alot of good coming out of that plan either.

Harsh sanctions or threats might work. "If any kid dies or anything within ten miles of you, you are going to jail and will have to prove your innocence". This is of course unconstitutional, but after a crime that does warrant the death penalty, I guess anything goes. And we have no idea if it would even work, because criminals do not think that they will be caught. Despite what the media tells you, 90% of the time they are not. Walking into a courtroom for sentencing always comes with the court's opinion - which is that you got away with it a bunch of times before you got caught. Most of the time they are right.

The easy answer is that there are no easy answers. With this criminality we are fighting each other, and there are bigger problems which require our attention these days. So what do we do, start whacking people because it is just too much trouble to try to help them ?

I'd hate to find that to be the only answer. But we still have that dead baby. Oh, and the ex-hooker, she was raped at age two. The perp didn't drown her though. But her fucked up life afterwards was not worth living. Until recently that is. Thirty years of drug abuse and trying to stay ignorant of her problems. Spreading her legs at the drop of a $20 bill. We don't mention that much, because life is to be lived in the present, for the future. You can't just say get over it, but that's what needs to happen. You are forty, it is time to take control.

If taking the path I took taught me anything, it's that my background, as imperfect as it was, wasn't all that bad.

T




truckinslave -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/22/2010 8:51:01 AM)

Notify the father.




thompsonx -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/24/2010 9:04:52 PM)

quote:

Cuba????? Cuba relies on torture and execution, not rehabilitation and reintegration.


You do not seem to recognize the difference between opinion and fact...If you keep pulling things like that out of your ass you will soon be able to drive a freight train up there.




Marini -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/24/2010 9:13:46 PM)

What a great post, Rich.
It's fun to be "pc" and be "easy breazy" when known former offenders don't live next door
to you and your family.
I might find myself in a similar situation, soon.
 
I just moved into a little old house, next door to me is a group home.
At first I thought only senior citizens lived there.
I was told that some of the occupants {mainly men} might be coming from the homeless shelter that is
also in the neighborhood.
 
I plan to contact the local police department soon, and keep updated on who may possibly be living there.
I am a single woman living alone, and I often have younger family members staying with me.

If ex-offenders who were convicted of serious crimes are staying in the group home next door, I sure
the hell want to know about it.
 
Again, I want a show of hands of all the good people that don't mind living next door to ex-offenders that
might have been involved in heinous crimes against minors, women, armed robbery, serious felonies/and/or murder.
 
I am sure many here would invite them over for a cook out on the 4th of July.
Peace




TheHeretic -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/24/2010 9:37:25 PM)

I would certainly do your homework on that, Mari. A lot of these halfway homes are a well-intentioned grand experiment, some are just moneymaking schemes that abuse both the system and the clients (4 tenants to a room, with some gov't agency paying $300-400 a head, per month), and a few are just downright scary.





Marini -> RE: A tough case in criminal justice (6/24/2010 9:58:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I would certainly do your homework on that, Mari. A lot of these halfway homes are a well-intentioned grand experiment, some are just moneymaking schemes that abuse both the system and the clients (4 tenants to a room, with some gov't agency paying $300-400 a head, per month), and a few are just downright scary.




Thanks Rich, the "group home" has been there for a few years now.
I never minded that, in fact I enjoy chatting with one particular gentleman that is at least 90 years old. 
I always thought of it as a senior citizen home.
In fact, I thought if I ever become too old or feeble to stay here, I could stay next door!
But now?

Coming to find out that some of the homeless residents from the shelter are "staying there",
changes my mind about the "group home"completly.
 




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