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RE: Budget. - 6/22/2010 6:24:41 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		FR:

uncollected garbage does tend to make things icky-- especially now.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Budget. - 6/22/2010 8:16:10 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Our government isn't even trying to pass one this year. (It's an easy way to avoid having to talk about the deficit, I suppose).

Maybe that would work for you guys?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 7:57:18 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Stimulus is more fun then austerity.

Hopefully the party can go on for centuries.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 8:19:07 AM   
splorff


Posts: 386
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
No change on cigarettes and alchohol.

the.dark.


I was not expecting that. Then again, the pubs are pretty empty nowadays, as not many can afford to be customers. Perhaps the politicians sense they must stop their parasitism for a while. The industry is in real decline. Pubs nearby close, remain empty for a while, then someone tries again to make it work.

75% of the price of an alcoholic drink in a uk pub is tax. The same is true for fuel and tobacco. Now vat is set to rise. The only good thing I see is that The Concil Tax is about to be suspended. I really hate that tax. It is so shamelessly immoral to insist we pay for council employee's pensions.

I am thinking of selling my home and buying a scottish croft.Then I shall wash my hands entirely of money. Then I shall grow my own vegetable for myself and also to barter with. They wont get another penny out of me.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 8:25:46 AM   
splorff


Posts: 386
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I can see a lot of people being forced to cheat the system soon, more than there is already doing. I can even foresee heels being dug in and a cash in hand work mentality being adopted by the poorest.




I can see great unrest unfolding.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 10:14:43 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
VAT rise I can deal with, it simply means to me less spending on things I don't need, but if I think this, how many more also think the same. A vat rise might have an adverse effect on creating more wealth, as those who are on the lowest income might very well think twice.

Yeah the poor will be ok as long as they avoid those ornamental vegetables.


_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 10:17:53 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Did anyone seriously notice when VAT went down by 2.5%?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 10:38:38 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Did anyone seriously notice when VAT went down by 2.5%?

E


I doubt if the man in the street noticed either when it went down or when it returned to 17.5%

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 6/23/2010 10:39:45 AM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 10:45:58 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
No change on cigarettes and alchohol.

the.dark.


I was not expecting that. Then again, the pubs are pretty empty nowadays, as not many can afford to be customers. Perhaps the politicians sense they must stop their parasitism for a while. The industry is in real decline. Pubs nearby close, remain empty for a while, then someone tries again to make it work.

It seems to be a party thing: Broon was always a lot happier hiking taxes on booze and tobacco than Clarke was.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to splorff)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 10:48:20 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Did anyone seriously notice when VAT went down by 2.5%?

E

The retailers did, they found it hard for their automated systems to deal with it as I recall; instead choosing to post signs saying the actual prices are cheaper.

You can't however advertise something as being less than it actually is, so they can't do the same this time. It'll cost them money and you have to think of this as a 5% increase for those encouraged by the initial reduction to spend more. I'm not really seeing how raising taxes on such things is helping the economy because when all is said and done people buy less accordingly and so less is raised. It's the problem every business owner faces i.e. how much to sell your product for to ensure that you sell enough units. You can opt for a really expensive unit price and sell few or you can reduce the prices hoping to shift greater volume. In the end you may end up making the same net profit regardless of which approach is used.


< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 6/23/2010 10:54:24 AM >

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 2:26:11 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Did anyone seriously notice when VAT went down by 2.5%?

E


Nope, heard things about it going down for a spell, but I noticed no difference from normal, as other things like food went up in price and that was the major concern, oh and I have noticed the food prices have not gone back down yet, despite the recession being over, or so we are told.

Just watching the news here, and someone who is expecting their HB to be cut says he feels betrayed by the Lib Dems who he voted for because he felt they were fair and honest. Cutting HB is going to cause a lot of problems for a lot of people.

But I suppose those who are not at the poorest end of society have any real clue what it is like, for it is not the soft touch they think it is. Maybe the management of the country should spend a few weeks on the shop floor to get a dose of reality about what it is really like, and do that in a place which is not London, just to show things are very different outside the capital.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 2:50:50 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		You identify an important point A - price changes that are disconnected from incomes, inflation, taxation and so on but related to the Sterling exchange rate. A weak Pound and all our imports increase in cost and so price, and we import an awful lot of stuff, food included. 2.5% is 1/10 of the maximum depreciation of the Pound against the Euro these last years, and we've seen similar issued against the Dollar, pushing fuel prices up.

And the Housing Benefit thing? Agreed, and I'm not sure that "move to somewhere cheaper" is really going to wash is it? We already have a shortage of housing and a lot of sub standard housing, overcrowding and homelessness, both overt and hidden. Where are all these cheaper homes going begging I wonder?

Politicians dont get it. "Jobs and Housing" is what they should be dealing with.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 2:59:27 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Then it is decided.  You fools are all over taxed.   Save the Queen?  I think NOT!   STOMP


http://www.roguegovernment.com/US_sets_out_G20_battle_lines/21773/0/2/2/Y/M.html

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 3:00:02 PM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		Im glad the English got it right in one respect. They gave a pay rise to the lowest paid civil servants. Proper order as they are the foot soldiers who, it is widely known, do the majority of the work.  The real problem both in England Ireland and elsewhere is the disproportionately high incomes at the top of the salary pyramid and those at the bottom who are paid very poorly for the functions they perform. But credit Cameron, he increased the wage for the lowly paid  civil servants who are lowest paid. In Ireland conversely what do we do, we hit the lowest paid the hardest. Sense? Surprisingly for a Conservative Prime Minster , he is displaying a lot of compassion and good common sense with willingness to adapt to the situation that he encounters and willingness most of all to be fair. Would that the amadans who run the Irish government do the same. No they are content to lumber from one disaster to the next and hit the lowest paid the hardest. Sense? Such things are beyond our Irish chieftains
kevin
kevin

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 3:07:06 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Of course, the biggest mystery in the budget is how our economic growth will be derived from exports within 3 years, making up 17% of economic growth, when we are and have historically been a vast net importer and we are up against the likes of China, India et al in world trade.

Maybe we're going to see "jobs programmes" where people working for their (greatly reduced) benefits turn out products effectively free of any labour cost? We could even resolve that HB problem this way, by having the workers share beds within the factories, and change over 19th century style as shifts change.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 3:44:29 PM   
splorff


Posts: 386
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline 		The whole system is a con trick, I say fuck them all. Lets all chip in and sell our homes and buy a Scottish croft or two. They have nothing we need. All we really need is food, fresh water, warmth ,shelter and pleasing company. Let us be gone. What have we to lose ?

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Budget. - 6/23/2010 4:14:16 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff

The whole system is a con trick, I say fuck them all. Lets all chip in and sell our homes and buy a Scottish croft or two. They have nothing we need. All we really need is food, fresh water, warmth ,shelter and pleasing company. Let us be gone. What have we to lose ?


Is sounds a good plan, but who would we support in the World Cup ?  Fair play for getting Scotland and Warmth in the same paragraph though.

(in reply to splorff)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Budget. - 6/24/2010 4:24:25 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
But I suppose those who are not at the poorest end of society have any real clue what it is like, for it is not the soft touch they think it is. Maybe the management of the country should spend a few weeks on the shop floor to get a dose of reality about what it is really like, and do that in a place which is not London, just to show things are very different outside the capital.

You don't have to leave London to find poverty, it had four of the poorest parliamentary constituencies in the UK according to a 2002 report and I don't think that would have changed much. It has the LA factor i.e. everyone abroad or outside thinks it's a place paved with gold where they can earn a great living. What they find instead is they can't survive and need huge housing benefits to afford to live in London. Now the government aims to cut this so I don't know how these people are going to live because we have such an unrealistic idea of how much a house should be worth and what council tax should be.

A large portion of our economy is driven by this over inflated housing market, perhaps council tax for second homes would be a start? Where was this in the budget? You have to ask yourself if we should cut out the middleman and have the government pay the housing associations directly because this we see as one of our thriving sectors i.e. look how you can earn a living being a property developer. People have been developing these properties for so long they must be space aged by now I can't imagine there is a single building left to exploit.


< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 6/24/2010 4:35:18 AM >

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Budget. - 6/24/2010 5:05:51 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I used London as an illustration due to the fact that London generally has a public transport system that works, wheras  where I am, the public transport sucks for it cannot be relied on to get anywhere  and with that the cost of fares is very nearly prohibitive and would be so if it was not for the fact that without personal transport it is the only option for travel. It also has to be used even for the mundanes in life as due to the supermarkets strategically placed in areas central to most, those in the outlying areas have to use public transport for the basic necessities as what existed for local shopping has long since been turned into homes.The centralisation of everything we need to live by, is becoming our undoing.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Budget. - 6/24/2010 10:59:27 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		I find that due to the high number of bus stops I can generally walk faster than a bus can travel.

Try travelling across south London rather than to the city and you might realise London's transport network is structured so that it is all aimed towards the city. To get across south London by train you have to get a train to London Bridge and then go back in the opposite direction using the appropriate radial branch. North London has the LU with is still hundreds of years old, yeah viva la investment.

As for those poor sods that need to work in the home counties, car is the only option.

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 40
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