RE: ACLU... Why?

RE: ACLU... Why? (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/23/2010 5:20:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse The Arizona law basically mirrors the federal imigration laws. I can't see what the up roar is all about. If I get stopped for a traffic offence I get asked for identification. Why shouldn't everyone else ? Your driver's license is not proof of citizenship. The Arizona law requires that you prove citizenship which requires a passport or birth certificate. If you bothered to read the text of the law it specifically says that a valid drivers license will be considered proof of citizenship under that law. Here's the text of the law: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf No mention of DL's being proof of citizenship is in the law.

Elisabella -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/23/2010 5:36:54 PM)
That's so weird. I wonder if they revised it because when I read it it said this: http://www.azleg.gov/alispdfs/council/SB1070-HB2162.PDF A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN 37 ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON 38 PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING: 39 1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE. 40 2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE. 41 3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL 42 IDENTIFICATION. 43 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED 44 STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL 45 GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.

DomKen -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/23/2010 5:54:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella That's so weird. I wonder if they revised it because when I read it it said this: http://www.azleg.gov/alispdfs/council/SB1070-HB2162.PDF A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN 37 ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON 38 PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING: 39 1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE. 40 2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE. 41 3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL 42 IDENTIFICATION. 43 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED 44 STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL 45 GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. looks like it got changed from the version I had bookmarked. However it is even worse now. It allows the arrest of any tourist as an illegal alien, since they likely won't have a qualifiying ID, which is a gross violation of the 14th amendment.

Elisabella -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/23/2010 6:11:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen looks like it got changed from the version I had bookmarked. However it is even worse now. It allows the arrest of any tourist as an illegal alien, since they likely won't have a qualifiying ID, which is a gross violation of the 14th amendment. That's why tourists generally carry their passport with valid visa in it.

DomKen -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/23/2010 6:25:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen looks like it got changed from the version I had bookmarked. However it is even worse now. It allows the arrest of any tourist as an illegal alien, since they likely won't have a qualifiying ID, which is a gross violation of the 14th amendment. That's why tourists generally carry their passport with valid visa in it. When I travel inside the US I don't. Don't know about other US citizens traveling inside the US.

Elisabella -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/23/2010 6:32:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen When I travel inside the US I don't. Don't know about other US citizens traveling inside the US. A licence or ID from your home state will suffice if you are a US citizen. 43 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED 44 STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL 45 GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.

DomKen -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/23/2010 6:42:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen When I travel inside the US I don't. Don't know about other US citizens traveling inside the US. A licence or ID from your home state will suffice if you are a US citizen. 43 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED 44 STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL 45 GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. The point is some states do not require such proof before issuing DL's. Alaska, Connecticut, Idaho, Louisiana, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Utah, Washington and West Virginia will issue DL's to illegal aliens. Therefore anyoen from those states would need a passport or someother document. Which violates the 14th.

KenDckey -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/24/2010 7:09:54 AM)
I still dont understand why the ACLU hasnt bothered the other polictical entities, just AZ

Termyn8or -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/24/2010 7:35:00 AM)
KD to figure out certain motives one must think omnidirectionally. What is the intended result ? Why is Ranch Rescue in TX and not in ND ? The ACLU is exceptionally hard to figure out, while the SPLC is transparent as glass. But both have similar goals - notariety. One thing is very clear, neither of those entities are philanthropic in any way. Specifics vary, but the goal is very similar. If I cared enough to find out more specifics, the first thing I would want to know is who funds such groups. Always follow the money. Then be amazed at how easily things fall into place and make sense. T

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/24/2010 2:59:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen When I travel inside the US I don't. Don't know about other US citizens traveling inside the US. The initial document required is a Caucasian face, if you have this then in all likeliness no other documents will be required.

DomKen -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/24/2010 6:21:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen When I travel inside the US I don't. Don't know about other US citizens traveling inside the US. The initial document required is a Caucasian face, if you have this then in all likeliness no other documents will be required. Which of course why this law was passed and why it will be thrown out.

thompsonx -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/24/2010 11:54:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Somebody's breaking the law, Ken: these sorts wouldn't be in your country in the first place if nobody was employing them, would they? Moon, they wouldn't be here in the first place if our Federal government had been doing it's job for the last twenty years or so. We're paying them to do a job and they're not doing it! All we get is excuses! Do you really believe that the local cops are not allowed to arrest employers who commit a federal felony by employing illegal aliens? Why are you such a biggot? Did some mexican bend you over and drive you home?

thompsonx -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/24/2010 11:58:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse The Arizona law basically mirrors the federal imigration laws. I can't see what the up roar is all about. If I get stopped for a traffic offence I get asked for identification. Why shouldn't everyone else ? For those who believe logic is a town in nebraska if the az. law mirrors federal law then why do they need it? They are able to enforce federal law.

eyesopened -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/25/2010 4:36:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey I still dont understand why the ACLU hasnt bothered the other polictical entities, just AZ Becasue ACLU only wants headline cases. They are not at all concerned about American civil liberties. Arizona just happens to be in the headlines.

FirmhandKY -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/25/2010 4:55:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen When I travel inside the US I don't. Don't know about other US citizens traveling inside the US. A licence or ID from your home state will suffice if you are a US citizen. 43 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED 44 STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL 45 GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. The point is some states do not require such proof before issuing DL's. Alaska, Connecticut, Idaho, Louisiana, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Utah, Washington and West Virginia will issue DL's to illegal aliens. Therefore anyoen from those states would need a passport or someother document. Which violates the 14th. Ya know, DK, so far in this thread, you haven't got a single thing right. Tennessee won't issue a DL to an illegal alien, nor will several of the others you mentioned: More states to deny illegal migrants driver's licenses In four of the five remaining states that allow illegal immigrants to drive — Hawaii, Maine, New Mexico, Utah and Washington — there have been attempts to reverse course, according to the National Immigration Law Center (NILC). The exception: Hawaii. That article was 2 1/2 years ago. I'm not going to bother to check on those last five states current policies. Firm

domiguy -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/25/2010 6:41:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 I think it's to do with the fact it would encourage racial profiling. i.e. who do you decide to stop in the street to detect the crime and enforce the law? As Dennis Miller says in the terrorism context, it isnt racial profiling, its being minimally observant. In a world of limited resources, if you don't focus your efforts, you're doomed to fail. Ah yes, you can never go wrong quoting one of the great philosophers of our time. Philosopher? maybe to you. Funniest political humorist around? Absolutely. If Jon Stewart had 1/4 of DMs wit he might even have an audience thats progressed beyond the 3rd grade. And that is why Dennis Miller is now forced to be on radio? Oh that is right!!! Virtually everything that he has touched since the cancellation of HBO"s Dennis Miller Live in 2002 has turned to shit. Poor wilbur. Dennis is now languishing on radio somewhere dreaming of returning to tv and once again being relevant. Poor thing.

FirmhandKY -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/25/2010 6:46:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Dennis is now languishing on radio somewhere dreaming of returning to tv and once again being relevant. You have to have your own TV show to be "relevant"? Then why do we hear so much about Rush? Firm

Jeffff -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/25/2010 6:49:46 AM)
Hey Cha Cha, rush is clearly in a league of his own. Dennis Miller?..... not so much

domiguy -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/25/2010 6:53:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy As Dennis Miller says in the terrorism context, it isnt racial profiling, its being minimally observant. In a world of limited resources, if you don't focus your efforts, you're doomed to fail. I kind of agree with that. I mean if a cop pulled someone over, and the driver was slurring and stuttering and laughing, the cop would probably administer a sobriety test, even if they didn't smell alcohol or pot. So if a cop pulls someone over and they speak fractured English with a thick Mexican accent, the cop would probably think to question citizenship. It's reasonable suspicion. Really though there needs to be a centralized database accessible from police cars where entering a passport number can bring up a name, photo, and visa status. That's the only way something like that would work, same with field sobriety tests. The problem with this law is not the concept but the implementation. Where is it suggested that speaking broken english is a crime? It might be a reasonable suspicion that you were not born in the states. There are plenty of US citizens born abroad that do not speak english fluently. The majority of these people I am confident are citizens. I rarely care for your posts. They seem to be simplistic and tend not to be very well thought out.

Owner59 -> RE: ACLU... Why? (6/27/2010 8:18:37 AM)
[/quote] Philosopher? maybe to you. Funniest political humorist around? Absolutely. If Jon Stewart had 1/4 of DMs wit he might even have an audience thats progressed beyond the 3rd grade. [/quote] Yeah,that`s why Miller`s career is skyrocketing [8\|]and the Daily Show is tanking.......[8\|] [:D] Say,....what ever happened to that conservative comedy programming we heard so much about?Or was that, the joke.[:D] , Probably in the same circular file(the trash can) that the "Good News from Iraq" programming went.

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