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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/14/2006 1:17:56 PM

cloudboy

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FEMDOMs can have issues with Male Doms as well.

Generally, it just seems wrong for a man to beat up on a woman although this is not exactly what happens in BDSM. Also, men have enough advantages already, so giving them even more power and authority over women seems like the wrong way to go. Lastly, I'm sure people cannot help but think of the violence men inflict on women (rapes, batteries, and assaults) when thinking about BDSM.

Blue Velvet explored this netherworld. When Frank Booth (Dennis Hopper) strikes Dorothy Vallens (Isabella Rossellini) and she likes it, responds to it --- one is SHOCKED. It seems twisted. Next when Dorothy Vallens asks the innocent, caring Jeffrey Beaumont (Kyle MacLachlan) to hit her, not only is it hard for him to do, but it hurts him more than it does her (she likes it.) The Frank Booth scenes were particularly violent and scary, and one doesn't get the feeling its exactly consensual --- but Dorothy gets a kind of twisted pleasure out of Frank and somehow relishes her trapped, slavish status.

Its interesting, too, how in The Secretary James Spader's character, although imbued with the power to dispense sadistic corrections of Maggie Gyllenhaal, had qualms of conscience about it and himself --- and like Kyle MacLachlan, its as if he suffered more than his submissive counterpart. His sub actually has to talk him back into role and action.

From a BDSM perspective, Blue Velvet probably drew up the architypal male DOM as a cross between the two male heroes, Frank Booth and Jeffrey Beaumont. Such a man would rest between a suburban, safe man and an antisocial, sociopathic, criminal one --- fusing danger and safety into one being.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 4/14/2006 1:48:27 PM >

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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/14/2006 3:49:37 PM

foxnotinsox

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quote:

The submissive men (mostly straight, from what I could gather) generally applauded and supported female dominance, including physical discipline of male submissives. On the other hand, they had a dim view of males dominating, and especially disciplining, female subs. They found something offensive, or churlish, about that dynamic.
<snip>
My own view was that the male subs simply wanted to view the world in a way that most supported their own interest-- i.e., approval of dominant women. I didn't consider that to be necessarily sexist. In fact, I thought it was rather curious that a group of men who were voicing belief in female dominance to be called "sexist" in a way that implied that they somehow thought less of women.

No not sexist .. yet perhaps selfish.
For every woman who chooses to submit, means one less available to have available to dominate them. Because even though they applauded one group of women, to look down with distain at another ... well, sorry but for me that cancels the first one out.

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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/14/2006 4:45:26 PM

DelightMachine

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Ms. TammyJo,

Thank you for that response. The whole situation is really intriguing. That's a good point you make about these classes being made up of particular students in some ways, and I assume they're more open to different sexual lifestyles.

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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/14/2006 5:36:46 PM

Cloudz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

I just have trouble wrapping my mind around how some people can be open-minded but restict that openmindedness to small corners of the world they deem "ok".

This is the type of thinking you see with homophobic males who think gay males should burn in hell for their "sin" but girl-on-girl action is "cool". Ugghhh, I just have to walk away from people like this or my brain hits critical mass!

Cin

Cin darling,

The people you mention are not familar with the definition of openmindedness...do not bother trying to "wrap your mind" around the ignorant..there are too many of them... we are outnumbered <grin>

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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/14/2006 9:01:01 PM

Vancouver_cinful

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloudz
Cin darling,

The people you mention are not familar with the definition of openmindedness...do not bother trying to "wrap your mind" around the ignorant..there are too many of them... we are outnumbered <grin>

Sadly, I think you're right on this. I don't suppose I'll ever be able to guite understand their logic.

Cin

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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/14/2006 11:24:23 PM

akisha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Since slaves are sexy, I guess it could be argued that subs may be sexist.....

ohhh so does that mean a sub with some slave tendancies/desires would be the sexiest? *giggles*

byt IB i love reading you're posts, they very interesting *grins*

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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/15/2006 12:08:34 AM

ServiceNTucson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aimtoplease101

My own view was that the male subs simply wanted to view the world in a way that most supported their own interest-- i.e., approval of dominant women.

What do you think?
Regards,
ATP

I would agree with your statement above, but would add that this is true of the vast majority of all people, kinky, vanilla or what have you.

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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/15/2006 12:26:53 AM

TeeGO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Submotive
Personally, i have a difficult time wrapping my mind around the concept of a true male submissive - one that isn't a "do me sub" or one that doesn't have a lot of emotional issues.

Wow! As close minded as the OP's sub males were, this is right there with them.

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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/15/2006 9:19:59 AM

texturedshroom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Submotive
Personally, i have a difficult time wrapping my mind around the concept of a true male submissive - one that isn't a "do me sub" or one that doesn't have a lot of emotional issues.

Why do emotional issues preclude being a true male submissive?

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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/15/2006 2:06:19 PM

Aimtoplease101

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Good observations cloudboy. Plus, I feel like I should get film criticism class credits!

Regards,
ATP

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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/15/2006 11:34:56 PM

obis

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If anything, I'd describe it less as sexist than overly-PC. Even many male doms, as we see in the board and real life, when they first start out deal with a lot of the anxiety of feeling that we're going against gender equality. It can be unnerving to grow up being told about men and women being equal and then reach a point where you and a partner decide, in practice, to treat each other very unequally. Male submissives may be, essentially the opposite side of that anxiety, feeling even more condemning of male doms for the perceived abuse of societal male privilege.

Similar to why some feminists find female domination fine, but have serious trouble separating the idea of male domination from abuse.

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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/16/2006 7:34:07 AM

MsIncognito

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aimtoplease101

The submissive men (mostly straight, from what I could gather) generally applauded and supported female dominance, including physical discipline of male submissives. On the other hand, they had a dim view of males dominating, and especially disciplining, female subs. They found something offensive, or churlish, about that dynamic.

One submissive woman (who disagreed) raised an interesting issue. She questioned whether submissive men who disdained male domination of women were really being sexist. In other words, was it paternalistic, or condescending, to view it as acceptable for a dominant woman to dominate and punish a male sub, but to view it as "poor form" for a man to do the same to a woman?

I have noticed this exact same attitude in several male sub friends of mine. On of them even goes beyond disdain for male dominants to contempt, IMO. I think it comes from the fact that it pisses them off that there are women out there who aren't willing to dominate them (since so many of them have such a tough time finding a Mistress) so every woman who chooses submission is one less woman who will beat their ass. JMHO.

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RE: Subs as sexists? - 4/16/2006 7:35:12 AM

MsIncognito

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I have to ask: where do I get this? URL please?