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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 11:04:42 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

So you are saying you are okay with toplessness in front of children?
YES!
Besides, its legal in Ontario



Many Canadian provinces have a topfree equality law.

It is not illegal for women to go topless in Canada, except for areas in which there is a restriction where all people have to obey a dress code.

For more info: http://www.tera.ca/

As for the OP, I'm not sure that fighting fire with fire was the strategy I'd use, but obviously the woman felt she was running out of options if she resorted to this. It's unfortunate when neighbours can't find compromises. I believe our society is lacking in non-judicial mediators.

- LA

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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 11:08:57 AM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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Status: offline 		It should also be stated that Toplessness has only been DECRIMINALIZED since 1996, meaning it is NOT common it is just no longer Illegal.

People should think about this idea, it is quite like the decriminalization of Marijuana in many places, it may no longer be illegal but it is not considered okay by people, and is not a view everyone carries.

It should also be known that where as it is no longer Illegal, it is not a Legal RIGHT, it is just something that will not get you arrested for doing.

I hope people see the difference, I am Legally afforded the right to free speech in America, it is LEGAL for me to do so, There is no right that protects my right to Dance in the street, it is simply not ILLEGAL to do so.

See what I am saying?

QSM

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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 11:12:10 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 11:13:14 AM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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Status: offline 		Okay try reading it again then.

QSM

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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 11:15:57 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		The number of times I read it won't change the number of contradictions within it.

You can't be arrested if you are not breaking the law, that is all there is to it. No great charter is going to be written proclaiming the right to nudity.


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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 11:16:40 AM   
Icarys


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Status: offline 		Yes yes yes, I think so..That you could "legally" dance in the street if you wanted to but you'd probably get arrested because they'd think you were publicly drunk?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMEhpBAkFrE&NR=1





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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 11:27:00 AM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
You can't be arrested if you are not breaking the law, that is all there is to it.


Really?

You might want to check that out.

An officer can arrest you if they believe that you have broken the law, proof is not required at that time, that is why people have lawyers.

It is also why no one Pleads Innocent. they Plead NOT Guilty.

You cannot be found Innocent in a court of law just not Guilty.

Point being here is that she does not have a LEGAL right to be Topless, she is simply not breaking any laws by doing so. There is a MAJOR difference, especially in a court of law.

QSM

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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 11:32:58 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		He might want to be sure he has some evidence if he wants to avoid charges of wrongful arrest and he has to say what he is arresting her for. If it's a public order offence (often used for wrongful arrests) then he can't do this too often to the same person.

So if she keeps being arrested for public order offences then she can claim she is the victim of police harassment.

Then everyone better get their stories straight. (This would be the case in the UK at least)


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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 11:33:02 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

It should also be stated that Toplessness has only been DECRIMINALIZED since 1996, meaning it is NOT common it is just no longer Illegal.


Which is why I didn't write that it was legal. I wrote that it wasn't illegal. Thank you for expanding on this notion as I don't think that most get the nuances of these kinds of issues.

However, the series of successful court case rulings in favour of the women choosing to be topfree is encouraging. From our friends at Wikipedia, the bold parts being mine:

In 1991, Gwen Jacob was arrested for walking in a street in Guelph, Ontario while topless. She was acquitted in 1996 by the Court of Appeal for Ontario on the basis that the act of being topless is not in itself a sexual act or indecent. Since then, the court ruling has been tested and upheld several times.


I'm glad that we have such freedoms in place here, though I am highly unlikely to take advantage of it. I did however participate in the topless protest circa 1994 in Montreal in support of Jacob. Lots of male spectators, go figure!

- LA

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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 1:48:27 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
So you are saying Canadian law as it stands fails to prevent child abuse? I don't know how much of a traumatic event showing breasts to a child is. Whether or not this brat psychologically recovers from this horrendous traumatising event only time will tell.


Without knowing the ins and outs of canadian law, I don't feel able to respond to that specific question as I do not know just how far authorities may be able to take this.
All I know, is that abuse of power comes in many forms and using a child as emotional blackmail leaves me in disgust.

quote:

It's not against the law to ride an ATV and it's not against the law to show breasts in Canada. So these two warring parties are at something of an impasse. Perhaps communication and setting boundaries so that they are all allowing for one another's needs is the way forward?


Neither set of ADULTS were in any way teaching the child to respect other peoples boundries whilst maintaining your own.  That is about the sum of it.

the.dark.

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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 2:03:26 PM   
Nineveh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan

I LOVE how this kid is a Brat, just because he is playing outside on something fun.

I FUCKING LOVE THAT.

So far all that has been said is that the Lady Dislikes it, Everyone assumes how Loud it is, that the Kid is a Brat, that the Neighbors are the Problem.....

Did it never once occur to ANYONE that maybe this Lady is the Problem?

Maybe NO ONE ELSE in the neighborhood is bothered by this little 5 year old Child?

Seriously I love the assumptions that people present as FACT when there is nothing to substanciate the belief.

The Child is 5, Not watching TV, Outside, Playing on something the Police are aware of and have not told him to stop, and none of the other neighbors are listed in the article.

The Article in fact ONLY presents ONE side of the argument as NO ONE ELSE was interviewed and all the quotes are only from HER POINT OF VIEW.

You Guys are so silly sometimes.

QSM


I don't think the kid is the problem.  I think the grandparents and the booby lady have a disagreement.  Who is unreasonable isn't really clear.

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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 5:10:26 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan
Point being here is that she does not have a LEGAL right to be Topless, she is simply not breaking any laws by doing so. There is a MAJOR difference, especially in a court of law.


Semantics... and rather weak ones, at that. If she is not breaking any specific laws by being topless and is not breaking any other laws in the pursuit of her toplessness then all of your 'court of law' mumbo jumbo is just that - mumbo jumbo. I understand what you are saying and technically what you say is accurate in a general sense. It just does not apply to this specific real world situation. She can apparently go out on her property topless all she likes if that's all she is doing without fear of arrest and her inconsiderate neighbors cannot do anything legally to stop her.

I say bravo to the woman. She did not take the law into her own hands. She used legal means to effect a solution to her problem. Yeah, it's a shame it had to come to that. It's interesting that the grandparent seeks a little "give and take" now that she has decided to go topless. It doesn't say specifically in the story but I wonder how much give and take he was suggesting before she shed her top? It does mention that she went to police about the noise but it is not specific about how that turned out. She is breaking any laws. Good for her.




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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 6:08:41 PM   
Level


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quote:

QSM:

Maybe NO ONE ELSE in the neighborhood is bothered by this little 5 year old Child?


I've spoken to others in the neighborhood, no one likes the little turd.

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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 6:41:03 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

She still used the child for her own gains and abused her age over the child. Doesn't matter if shes using it to make the grand parents uncomfortable, using a child as emotional blackmail is abusive.
It may be abusive to the grandparents, but it sure as hell isn't child abuse. People shout "child abuse" at the stupidest things...Hell by today's standards my parents were incredibly abusive...we rode bikes without helmets, we played with bows & arrows, lawn darts and guns...we walked on our own to and from school, in the summer we left the house in the morning and ran free (and pretty wild) until the sun went down when we went home, filthy, hungry and more often than not bleeding from cuts & scrapes, In India we played freely in an area of brushland we shared with cobras and jackals, in Cambodia we swam in the ocean...with its jellyfish, stingrays & toadfish...in other words we were kids...if my parents were abusive, then abuse me baby!!

Broken bones, scrapes & stitches are just part of growing up....so is seeing the occasional set of tits (granted growing up where I did I probably saw more tits than most North American kids do).

Kids are not the delicate fragile little china dolls you seem to think they are...they are tough...TOUGH, resilient and they bounce. If there was any abuse of the kid it wasn't the going topless, it was the bringing the kid inside to "protect" his delicate eyes from the evil boobs!

Child abuse....get real!


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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 7:16:33 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan
Point being here is that she does not have a LEGAL right to be Topless, she is simply not breaking any laws by doing so. There is a MAJOR difference, especially in a court of law.


Semantics... and rather weak ones, at that. If she is not breaking any specific laws by being topless and is not breaking any other laws in the pursuit of her toplessness then all of your 'court of law' mumbo jumbo is just that - mumbo jumbo. I understand what you are saying and technically what you say is accurate in a general sense. It just does not apply to this specific real world situation. She can apparently go out on her property topless all she likes if that's all she is doing without fear of arrest and her inconsiderate neighbors cannot do anything legally to stop her.


The Bolded part is where you are wrong, at least in america you are wrong who knows how things work in Canada. In America the distinction between Legal and Not Illegal is much more than Semantics. See in America if they just decriminalized the offence, then this case could be taken directly before a Grand Jury, and could go directly to the Supreme Court. Because her "Right" to be Topless is NOT protected it is simply not illegal to be topless, Due to the fact that there are legal cases in which when it was illegal arrests were made and when the decriminalization no one thought someone would use the new freedom in such a way, it could easily taken before the supreme court and if their ruling determined that the decrimilization harmed the general public it would releal the earlier decision and create prduence againt the decriminalization of it in the future.

There is a HUGE difference between something being a Legal Right, and something that is simply Not Illegal.

QSM


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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/27/2010 7:27:29 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

QSM:

Maybe NO ONE ELSE in the neighborhood is bothered by this little 5 year old Child?


I've spoken to others in the neighborhood, no one likes the little turd.



Okay that actually made me laugh out loud.

Level gets a cookie.

QSM

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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/28/2010 4:29:28 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
Broken bones, scrapes & stitches are just part of growing up....so is seeing the occasional set of tits (granted growing up where I did I probably saw more tits than most North American kids do).

Kids are not the delicate fragile little china dolls you seem to think they are...they are tough...TOUGH, resilient and they bounce. If there was any abuse of the kid it wasn't the going topless, it was the bringing the kid inside to "protect" his delicate eyes from the evil boobs!

Child abuse....get real!



Hello Arpig.
Baring breasts in front of children isn't abusive and I never said it was.
Baring breasts in front of children that are because of, or result in, a child being subjected to adult disagreements and oneupmanship, is.
And teaching a child not to respect peoples boundries while protecting their own, is fucked up too.

the.dark.

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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/28/2010 12:48:54 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I wanted to catch up with this thread because I find the comments so interesting.  I'm not really sure how many folks have the same thought process on the matter as I do, but it seems that the gal who went topless just managed to find a legal way to control the Grandparents.  It's a form of bullying and seems like just another type of extortion.  The article doesn't even reflect any attempt at compromise.  It even specifically states that, since she found this works, she's going to do it every time the kid gets on the toy.

I'm also led to believe that if it wasn't this issue, it would probably be another one.  These folks have been having issues with each other for at least a couple of years.  The article mentions past problems.  I see it more as the kid being dragged into the middle than anything else.

Though it seems a lot longer ago than it really is, I remember being a kid and noisy stuff was always happening outside.  That's part of being a kid.  Outside playing and doing those activities that were probably too loud for being inside the house.


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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/28/2010 8:44:34 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

Baring breasts in front of children that are because of, or result in, a child being subjected to adult disagreements and oneupmanship, is.
Bah!!

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RE: Woman goes topless to quiet neighbors - 6/29/2010 9:19:36 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
Bah!!


Humbug!

 (no minors were disturbed during this discussion)

the.dark.

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