Attempting Again... (Full Version)

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CERCKL -> Attempting Again... (4/13/2006 6:43:32 PM)

My spirituality post became an interesting argument surrounding god, religion et al...not the mess I intended but I should've known better...
I would instead like to try another approach and see if this gets closer to what I intended.

<How do you see yourself, your concept of the self, in relation to everything around you, every one around you. How does your belief system, perceptions influence your BDSM/D/s relationship and where does it fit into your belief system?>



I have attempted to divorce this thread from any color of religion consciously, though if your beliefs are influenced that way, that is fine; I just didn't want to see a theological/philisophical debate...more interested in allowing them to coincide together.
Thank you for your indulgence,
C

Thank you starymists for responding to the original question; I thought I had been clear...



EvilGeoff -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/13/2006 7:01:02 PM)

HUH?

Try again please, in language that someone without a doctorate in philosophy can understand.

Thanks!
- Geoff



starymists -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/13/2006 7:03:11 PM)

I'm not really sure you can divorce where someone sees themselves in the grand scope of the universe from their religious or spiritual beliefs. But I'll try...here goes:
 
quote:

I am curious as to how you define yourself with in the context of the rest of existence...ontologically, where, how do you see yourself fit in with everyone/everything else which exists;
 
I feel as though I am just one part of a much bigger whole. That I am both an individual and a collective being. I impact my environment, and my environment impacts me. I impact those around me and they impact me. I am something by myself, but I am more when I am connected to what is around me.
 
quote:

your sense of self, individuality, responsibility...how does it influence your perceptions regarding your experiences, your interactions with others
 
My sense of self is individual to an extent. I know who and what I am, what I need, what I want, where I want to go. But there are a lot of people that contributed to who and what I am. I wouldn't be who I am if it weren't for them. I wouldn't be who I am without the experiences, both good and bad in the past. Because I realize that everything and everyone impacts me, I take it to be true to cause no harm to others, to leave what I find in better shape than I found it. I don't leave for someone else what I can take care of for me.
 
quote:

and then does your 'paradigm' of reality influence how you interact in your BDSM/D/s relations? Are certain choices made in these relations which are directly influenced from your perceptions/beliefs/etc...sort of a macrocosm/microcosm interaction/question...
 
Yes, my paradigm influences how I interact in BDSM with my Dominant, with my sisters, with my friends, with people I mentor. If someone is brought across my path, I assume that there is a reason, something I can help them with, something that I can change, improve, support, whatever. Its just an extension of service for me. I do the same thing in my relationship with my Dominant. Only difference is, I do it with my Dominant because we meet each others needs. I do it for friends, because we do for each other. I do it for strangers, cuz I believe in karma and have no desire to put out negativity that could come back to me for what goes around, comes around [:)]



Takethiswaltz -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/13/2006 7:08:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff

HUH?

Try again please, in language that someone without a doctorate in philosophy can understand.

Thanks!
- Geoff



I second that.



Arpig -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/13/2006 7:12:06 PM)

I third it.....

However if what you a re asking is where do I see myself in relation to the rest of the universe, then the answer is right where I belong...smack-dab in the middle of it.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/13/2006 7:46:35 PM)

i understand your question, Cerckl, but unfortunately my thoughts on this subject are much too personal to post in an open forum at this time.  i'd be happy to explore the topic in a private conversation if you like. 



BitaTruble -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/13/2006 7:49:32 PM)

Each drop of rain which falls into the pond creates a ripple which extends outwards. The more knowledge of self you possess, the larger your view, the more 'you' there is, the larger the drop and the larger the ripple you create. I believe the more I share, the more I touch and the more I allow others to share with me, the more that "I" become. This permeates ever part of my life, BDSM included. I want to splash around as much as possible before my drop is dried and returned to the clouds.

Celeste



mtumwawaBwana -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/13/2006 7:54:00 PM)

Sir, Your query is a deep one and the variables You illude to are written between Your lines. to be fair to You and be honest to what it is You seek, may i please break Your query down?
1."how you define yourself with in the context of the rest of existence"?
2."ontologically,{Of or relating to essence or the nature of being.}, where, how do you see yourself fit in with everyone/everything else which exists"?
3.How do you define "your sense of self, individuality, responsibility"?
4."how does it{ that which you define yourself within the realm of all other nature forms in existance} influence your perceptions regarding your experiences, your interactions with others ?"
5."does your 'paradigm' {A set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality for the community that shares them, especially in an intellectual discipline. }
of reality influence how you interact in your BDSM/D/s relations? "
6."Are certain choices made in these relations which are directly influenced from your perceptions/beliefs/etc...sort of a macrocosm{The entire world; the universe}/microcosm{A small, representative system having analogies to a larger system in constitution, configuration, or development} interaction/question"?

as for my answers i would have to offer my own feelings, thoughts , and value systems.
1. i feel that all people exist on this earth just as the grains of the sand on a beach. we are numerous in count, but unique. no two are alike, even twins have some dissimilarities. but in the end, we are all humans. which leads me to your next question.
2. because i am a human but unlike any other human on the face of this earth, i am like one grain of sand on that beach, meaning in the vastness of this universe, if God were to look upon me, i would be but that speck of sand on this earth. which leads me to 3;
3. i live with purpose. to be of help to my fellow man, my children, my friends, and to anyone i come into contact with that might need my help in any way i  can possibly offer assistance to. leads to 4
4. my interactions with those around me are numerous in form and content. because i view my existance here on earth is to serve mankind, my reactions to those around me are hued with a humbled servitude temperment.
5. so this is why i feel i am a slave by nature. i find a freedom within the bounds of a collar. i find a deep heartfelt joy in the service of my Master.
6. all my choices are in direct correlation to my feelings of ingrained servitude.

i hope i have at the very least hit the surface of what it is You seek in answer. i did not go into depth with my answers to keep the post short.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/13/2006 7:59:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Each drop of rain which falls into the pond creates a ripple which extends outwards. The more knowledge of self you possess, the larger your view, the more 'you' there is, the larger the drop and the larger the ripple you create. I believe the more I share, the more I touch and the more I allow others to share with me, the more that "I" become. This permeates ever part of my life, BDSM included. I want to splash around as much as possible before my drop is dried and returned to the clouds.

Celeste


Sometimes you scare me.   heh.  One of the first concepts that popped into my mind when reading the OP was of the "ripple effect."  Similar to your thoughts, i feel we all have a ripple effect, and never really know what they touch or how far they reach.  The question i tend to ask is:  Do you want to create good ripples, or bad ripples?

The other thoughts i have, re: spirituality and how i apply it to my M/s relationship are what i hold too sacred to post.



SweetPosession -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/13/2006 11:33:30 PM)

I do not subscribe to any organized religion. There may be a religion out there which believes the same things I believe, but I haven't found it yet. My spirituality is an ever-evolving collection of concepts which resonate with my innermost self. I believe in karma, and that all energy put forth will be reciprocated universally. If I maliciouslly hurt someone, I will have incured a karmic debt which will be balanced when something negative (though not necessarily in kind) affects me. If I hurt someone with loving intent, though, I will get love back. If I inflict pain on someone, I'm in trouble. If I give pain to my partner to satisfy him/her, I will in turn be satisfied.



defiant -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/14/2006 10:55:42 AM)

I adorn your shadow. The days light will command my shade. Only here are my true lines blurred enough for you to be distracted by my sensible shoes.
I must shed more skin for there to be a shared property of association for what I think and feel.
What a fun exercise! Thank you.



Cloudz -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/14/2006 12:18:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL

<How do you see yourself, your concept of the self, in relation to everything around you, every one around you. How does your belief system, perceptions influence your BDSM/D/s relationship and where does it fit into your belief system?>

I doubt I can say it better than Celeste did... a drop of water in an endless sea (okay,some song says that too). I believe that I impact the lives of the people around me and the people they go onto impact is touched by a part of me as well.

How does it affect my BDSM relationship? Not to sound trite, but the same way it affects my relationship with the local dry cleaner...okay, I don't have a local dry cleaner, I live in the boondocks, but if I did...

It sounds like you expect that my belief system and perceptions are like bits of me that I load up when I choose to. My belief systems and perceptions are me, and affect others around me. My encounter with you factors into my awareness, gets filtered through my perceptions, passes through my belief system and a thought or feeling is formed.

It sounds like you are expecting an answer that is similar to...well, I believe men are superior and that is why I submit or women are all knowing so I must submit to them to satisfy my perception and beliefs. That really is not how the human mind works. IMHO







CrappyDom -> Great question! (4/14/2006 1:48:54 PM)

I am sort of making the opposite quest and looking inward rather than outward.  However, the deeper I look into myself, the more I see the interconnectedness of everyone around me and how my actions affect others.

In addition, that allows me to seperate their actions from me (I used to have really bad boundaries, now I just have poor ones!).

As an athiest, I don't believe in a higher power, I think we create everything and are thus responsible for everything.  If we accept people into our lives who do not live up to high standards, while we are not responsible for their actions, we are responsible for them being in our lives and affecting those around us.  The difference is subtle, but I think important between wanting to control others and wanting to control who those others are that we choose to surround ourselves with.

Anyway, I am rambling now but this is a question I could spend weeks discussing and who knows, we might!



Cloudz -> RE: Great question! (4/14/2006 5:07:49 PM)

Hi CD,
Your points are fascinating. I practice Buddhism and also believe that we are, if not responsible for everything, certainly accountable for how we impact other living things. I do agree in concept, if not point by point that we are responsible for the people we allow to remain in our lives, responsible for the impact they cause on us and how that affects the living things around us.



CERCKL -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/14/2006 9:26:33 PM)

quote:

It sounds like you are expecting an answer that is similar to...well, I believe men are superior and that is why I submit or women are all knowing so I must submit to them to satisfy my perception and beliefs. That really is not how the human mind works. IMHO


Personally I don't believe anyone is superior in any manner...Dom(me)/sub/black/white/christian/islamic...all just ways to define and seperate. I think that one point which got lost in my attempt at asking about spiritual beliefs was that both the atheists and the spiritual believed in the importance of personal responsibility. I suppose I was asking regarding this 'lifestyle' was if you were aware of your beliefs while in your relationships...I do agree we don't turn our beliefs on and off but I do believe that there are a lot of people who have no conscious awareness of these type of questions and who attempt to deny them; instead chasing after distractions, bright and shiny objects and following their lives in a reactive, asleep manner...
Just curious who else actually saw this chosen direction of interaction, not as enlightenment, but rather as another way of focus, connecting to their world, their reality.
C



ICGsteve -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/15/2006 3:09:23 PM)

In have never felt more alive than when participating in BDSM. Many others have said the same. Does this not answer your question?



Proprietrix -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/15/2006 3:35:59 PM)

I think....
maybe...
this is a bit over my head.



puella -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/15/2006 3:44:07 PM)

I don't think subscribing to what ever subsets and ethos' of BDSM are applicable to you, divorces you from society as a whole or you as a part of the whole of society.  We are the sum of everything and everyone we have encountered (with a few other metaphysical bits thrown in) and in turn, everything we encounter is shaped by each of us.

"How does your belief system, perceptions influence your BDSM/D/s relationship and where does it fit into your belief system?"
 
I think there is the crux of it right there... How does your belief system fit into your belief system???  If you have to compartmentalize your life into separate boxes, I would imagine your life must be pretty bumpy.  If you do not live your life, just as that, a life, not a lifestyle.. than you are sort of playing at things instead of wholly living them, are you not?  Your background, your belief systems etc, make up who YOU are.  Who you are as a person should determine how you interact not only with your BDSM partner, but everyone else muddling through on this planet.  It's no different than hiding any other sexual proclivity, or being in the closet, i would think.. if you have to hide something away, there is a schism. Everything that contributes to your life, has an influence on you, and how you influence others, IMHO.



valeca -> RE: Attempting Again... (4/15/2006 4:12:43 PM)

I'd squish my answer to the OP somewhere between what Bita said and what puella said.  There'd, of course, be aspects of my beliefs/belief system that, as an individual, wouldn't fit so neatly into either, but as a whole, they've come closest to what I'd describe for myself.



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