Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (Full Version)

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Andalusite -> Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/25/2010 6:48:08 PM)

So, this subject has come up in a few different places recently, and Hib asked me to start a thread on how I've started things with people who are completely inexperienced. I'm a switch, and don't have a required dynamic or a lot of "must have" kinks, so I'm probably more successful than most. I've never had anyone turn me down over my interest in D/s or BDSM, or had a relationship break up over a kink incompatibility. It has been an issue to some extent in a couple of relationships (more frequency than what we were doing specifically, though), but something else was the deciding factor. I'd love it if other people will chime in with their experiences or tips.

So, I've met a few of my previous relationship partners through various vanilla interests. Usually I already know them pretty well before they've asked me out. Once they let me know they're interested in a relationship, not just FWB or dating, I'll discuss BDSM, boundaries around poly/monogamy/flirting/etc., and other important stuff. Around the 3rd or 4th date, I'll usually bite their neck gently while flicking my tongue over their skin, or pinch their nipples lightly, or ask them to pull my hair, glow at them, and ask for more. [;)] If they react well to that (and so far, nobody hasn't), I might up the intensity a bit, but usually it waits until after the conversation above. Once we're definitely interested in each other, I bring up ideas of things to do, usually very light S/M, bondage, and sensation play. We'll discuss what worked for them, what didn't, if they'd like to try giving rather than getting, things he'd like to try, things I'd like to try... I keep it pretty lighthearted, sexy, and low-key to start with. If that goes well, then it can ramp up from there, maybe take some classes together, maybe just play privately. Some of them have turned out to already have an interest or experience with BDSM, so that goes faster, others hadn't considered it until I brought it up. A couple of the ones who were experienced were really surprised that I was into BDSM, since I didn't fit their "image" for that - too sweet and innocent.[:D] They were afraid of scaring me off by bringing it up, so were glad I did instead.

While several of them had fantasies based on porn, or perhaps an educational book or website, they were all open to my input, and didn't expect me to do things that were unreasonable. I've run into that attitude a lot on dating sites, but not in the "real world." It can be very fun making those first explorations with someone who is new, on either side of the whip. Usually they've turned out to not be particularly drawn to power dynamics per se, but did want me to be happy and have my needs met.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/25/2010 6:50:10 PM)

Thanks, Anda! [:D]



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/25/2010 6:54:58 PM)

I'm fine with vanilla dating. And I really enjoy helping novices out with advice and discussion and examples. But if I want a Ds relationship, really at this point in my experience level, I don't want to take the time and energy it would require to bring them to what I need. I want to be IN the relationship. So it would be very very unlikely for me to meet someone totally novice, totally ripe and worth that sort of commitment.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/25/2010 7:04:57 PM)

My experience has lead me to discover that no one is truly vanilla. Most of the partners that I've had in the past were initially not all that familiar with BDSM and teaching could be fun and was never really all that hard. Your techniques are pretty spot on Anda.

That said, I always had to help them work through their struggle which was the less fun part.

It depends on the individual, but sometimes being with someone that already knows what they want is more fun. That's why I came back here after a 4 year hiatus.

- LA



DesFIP -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/25/2010 8:16:05 PM)

My experience is otherwise. My ex was not judgmental about my interest in bondage and he agreed to try it but it made him feel as if he were a rapist. It was not something he was at all comfortable doing. And he didn't like rough sex either.



slavekal -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/25/2010 8:34:51 PM)

Lady Angelika, that is exactly what I used to tell Ms. Mlicious all the time.  She had a habit of putting guys into categories of vanilla versus subbie.  She now realizes, I think, that there is no such thing as a vanilla man.



LadyPact -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 5:46:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I'm fine with vanilla dating. And I really enjoy helping novices out with advice and discussion and examples. But if I want a Ds relationship, really at this point in my experience level, I don't want to take the time and energy it would require to bring them to what I need. I want to be IN the relationship. So it would be very very unlikely for me to meet someone totally novice, totally ripe and worth that sort of commitment.

This is My sentiment on the matter as well.

I love teaching other tops how to do things they want to learn.  It's one of the most rewarding things out there for Me.  That's how I started doing demos in the first place.  Over a course of time, it got noticed that I was willing to help out  anybody who had seen Me do something while I was playing who came up to Me after the scene was finished with an interest in learning what I had done.  When I taught in groups, people loved it that I would help people with one on one instruction after the 'class' was over.  I tend to think that's why they always invite Me back.  [;)]

In My personal life, I just don't see the need to settle for somebody who is green out of the gate.  There are so many folks out there who really are willing to make an investment and aren't too intimidated to be a part of all of this.  If it's what they really want, they are going to make an effort.  I see no reason to settle for less than that.



Andalusite -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 11:39:51 AM)

Oh, I'm not trying to convince anyone to give newbies a try, and I agree they should put some effort into educating themselves as well. Most of the people I've dated were before I got involved in the public scene at all. One I dated after that point, but we'd known each other beforehand, and I went out on dates with people I met online, but didn't find anyone I liked as much. I met one partner through my local community, one here, and one through a different online site (though he also has an account here). A lot of people have the perception that they can't possibly find someone in their home town because there isn't a formal community, and some people are already in relationships. I'd hoped that we could give them some suggestions and success stories to help them be brave enough to communicate their needs to potential partners.



sublizzie -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 12:15:58 PM)

I like to say that I perverted Santa, but really, he had it in him all along. He just hadn't felt free to express that dominant side of himself except in vanilla ways. He was naturally dominant. It was just *there*. I helped him by telling him I wanted him to take control and that I wanted him to do whatever he wanted. As he experimented, he became more and more controlling and I loved it! But then, I'm not into S&M as much as I love D/s. He was not into causing pain but he did love his ropes...



laurell3 -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 12:27:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I'm fine with vanilla dating. And I really enjoy helping novices out with advice and discussion and examples. But if I want a Ds relationship, really at this point in my experience level, I don't want to take the time and energy it would require to bring them to what I need. I want to be IN the relationship. So it would be very very unlikely for me to meet someone totally novice, totally ripe and worth that sort of commitment.



Agreed. Also, I don't have a problem living without kink. I do have a problem dating someone and trying to make them be what I want them to be rather than accepting them as they are. A bite on the neck is a long way from sadism.



Andalusite -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 12:34:25 PM)

Well, the ones I introduced to S/M that way were fine with medium-level flogging, spanking, caning, bondage, wax, some edgier things, etc. within 2-3 months. *shrugs* A couple only were interested in topping, but were willing to bottom to me if I wanted them to, or vice versa, so we focused on the areas they enjoyed as well. I didn't want to overwhelm them with too much at once, but I could have probably gone faster if I'd wanted to. I enjoyed savoring all of those new things with them, and gradually ramping it up. I wasn't trying to change them or make them something they weren't, but I did want them to be openminded and willing to explore with me. If it had turned out they didn't enjoy kink, I'm not sure if I would have broken up with them over it. Fortunately, I didn't have to make that decision, even once.[:D]

sublizzie, most of them weren't into power dynamics, but in my first D/s relationship, as a Domme for 5 years, my submissive had a similar approach. He encouraged me to explore and discover what my needs were, try things I wanted to do, rather than asking for a specific outcome. Sometimes, we don't know who we are or what we want until we try it, and after more than 15 years, I'm still discovering new things about myself, and new things that I like.[:D]



laurell3 -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 12:36:20 PM)

If it works for you, go for it. I tend to have a hard time with someone doing those things only because I want them to. My opinion, is just that, only mine, you don't have to live it too. [:D]



Andalusite -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 12:39:54 PM)

That's why I didn't push the ones who felt that Topping was more comfortable to bottom, even though they were willing to if it turned me on and made me happy. I didn't have a set agenda for what to do, I got feedback from them, and we did things that worked for both of us. If someone is unenthusiastic and just "putting up with it," there's no connection, feedback loop of pleasure, and I can't get the reactions I need. I wasn't focused on a specific toy, or a set role, just on finding ways for both of us to be happy and get our needs met.



Jeffff -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 12:42:04 PM)

I have found that you can get many vanilla women to let you pull their hair and bang em up the ass.

I have found none that will let me take a cane to them.

I may or may not be a sick fuck.....but I now what I like..:)



laurell3 -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 12:43:36 PM)

That's the point. AGAIN, It is ONLY my opinion. I want a sick fuck. I want to serve THEM, not vice versa. It really doesn't work for me otherwise.



Jeffff -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 12:45:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

That's the point. AGAIN, It is ONLY my opinion. I want a sick fuck. I want to serve THEM, not vice versa. It really doesn't work for me otherwise.



Well.... aren't you the lucky one...:)



laurell3 -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 12:46:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff


quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

That's the point. AGAIN, It is ONLY my opinion. I want a sick fuck. I want to serve THEM, not vice versa. It really doesn't work for me otherwise.



Well.... aren't you the lucky one...:)


Yes I am. Thank you.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 12:53:05 PM)

FR

Conversion would entail them desiring these obscure acts.

Getting people to pander to your kinks isn't the same as that person having kinks of their own. Most people are pretty happy to want to please you occasionally but whose sake they are doing it for is another thing altogether.

There is a lot of talk of conversion but in most cases you'll just be awakening some latent desire they already have.



AAkasha -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 3:26:48 PM)


I've had great experiences with converting vanilla men, or finding men who were submissive and they didn't know it.  But I will readily admit that this dynamic (Female dominant, male submissive) is a lot easier to direct and cultivate than the other way around. Just by the very nature of it.

For one, what vanilla guy doesn't appreciate or feel flattered by a woman who is aggressive, open about her desires, sexually confident and tells what she wants and how she wants it?  Even the most conservative guy, I would find, thought this was a breath of fresh air.

When it comes to kinkiness, I found that vanilla guys were fully accommodating.  Again, what man doesn't appreciate a woman with a healthy sexual appetite, an open mind and a bit of an edge?  The challenges came later, I found, with regards to frequency (I wanted it a lot more than he did), extremes (ok so he can't go THAT far, but he can try), and understanding that my desire for S&M isn't just a "diversion," it's a "compulsion."  Sure, I can be told "No, not tonight, I have a headache," but it leaves me unhappy.  A man who isn't kinked that way doesn't understand what it feels like to want it at all costs, and it can cause friction. 

I found that I would gravitate toward men who were pleasers by nature, were more open to being led and told what to do, and were really devoted.  I found that I always wound up with men who were sexually generous (my pleasure before theirs), open minded (that's more my personality anyway, and likes attract likes), and very accommodating.   It wasn't a coincidence that I never got past initial flirtations with men who were controlling, aggressive or whatnot.  If you think about it, being a femdom makes your partner-seeking pretty self selective.  If a man openly hit on me, usually he didn't succeed if he was overly aggressive, commanding or pushy; if I liked the chemistry, I'd push back and take control, and we'd either hit a stalemate and go our separate ways, or he'd give in.  All of this dance can be done in less than 5 minutes at a party, by the way.  Body language, eye contact, or dancing.  That's just how I screened potential men.

Akasha



gentlemanprince -> RE: Converting nillas, and dating newbies and fantasists successfully (6/26/2010 8:18:32 PM)

I've dated vanilla and been totally unsuccessful.  Perhaps that is because I want an emotional D/s relationship and for me kinks are secondary.  I've found that a woman either likes to control a relationship or doesn't.  Most don't.  They seem to believe that relationships must be equal and therefore recoil at any power exchange.  Perhaps it's a holdover from feminism.  But whatever the reason, every time I've explained to a vanilla woman the type of relationship I wanted, the answer as been thanks, but no thanks.





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