RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt

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LadyEllen -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 7:31:38 AM)
Credit card? You were talking about personal loan m'dear, which is an entirely different beast. One could see using the SS fund to dip into occasionally for specified purposes, as with a personal loan, but one could not see using the SS fund as a credit card to fund whatever might take the fancy of the user, nor as an overdraft for similar purposes. The former sounds like something one might reasonably do, the latter sound like misappropriation of public funds. E

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 7:39:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Credit card? You were talking about personal loan m'dear, which is an entirely different beast. E ORLY. With a CC the bank gives you money, unsecured, and you repay it with interest. Whats the difference? (Hint: the only difference is that a CC is a revolving personal loan). However, banks do not restrict your use of any uncollateralized loan, cc or otherwise, and that is exactly what the treasury notes that SS buys are...loans secured only by the good faith and credit of the US. And its interesting that your initial comment claimed that unsecured loans are responsible for "so many delinquent accounts". I guess you dont know about the foreclosure crisis in the US.

pahunkboy -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 7:50:34 AM)
Can I borrow some money?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 7:51:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Can I borrow some money? Ask your bank. Im sure they will loan you whatever you need, collaterlized by your vast investments in silver and gold.

Archer -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 8:13:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Brain you don't really have the information correct AGAIN. Social Security money is not in a good safe investment. All surplus money from Social Security has been "loaned" to the US government and spent to support programs in the regular budget. The "trust fund" is holding a pocket full of Government IOUs, from a government who can't balance their budget as it is and has been using the surplus from the trust fund to do that so far. You contradict yourself. Money has been loaned to the US Government which is still considered the safest investment in the world. You still consider the US Government to be a good risk?, LOL Now that's funny. The entire world has been discussing what can be done to prevent the US from having it's credit rating dropped to a B. SSI is an unsecured loan to a congress that is making minimum payments that don't even make the balance drop $1 only paying interest. Banks take people paying that way and reduce their limits.

VAcontroldom -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 8:23:58 AM)
The OPs source was false from the first paragraph. The money seniors paid in is completely insufficient to pay their benefits and would already be considered insolvent. Current seniors have been paid by social security only by raising 1) the rate of tax 2) the maximum amount taxed 3) the number of people taxed (baby boomers) did the system stay in the state it is in The transfer system (aka pyramid scheme) collapses when you can't continue this. So as boomers retire you have more people being paid and fewer people to pay the taxes There is no one way to cure the deficit, it will take a combination of many politically bitter moves BTW, the social security earnings base has never been $99,999 but it is close this year at $106,000. It is indexed for inflation after having been raised by Acts of Congress through the years. It originally was $3,000 not $99,999 There is no longer (Clinton) any cap on the medical part, about to skyrocket

Owner59 -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 8:24:09 AM)
Did you read the news recently about the financial crisis,..... archer? Who did your wallstreet buddies come to, for help? Stomp! [:D] Just imagine all those billions of SS dollars sucked down the drain,along with all the other billions your wallsteet buddies stuffed down the toilet. Let`s not.Thank god we don`t have to.

LadyEllen -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 8:24:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy And its interesting that your initial comment claimed that unsecured loans are responsible for "so many delinquent accounts". I guess you dont know about the foreclosure crisis in the US. sssshhhhhhhhhheeerrrrrrrrrrrrrruffffffffffffffffffffff (a sound with which you may be familar but never had explained; its the sound something makes when it flies right over your head, or possibly and occasionally in one ear and, quite unhindered, straight out the other) I think what youll find is that my comment was about banks' lending practices. Something which played a key part in the foreclosure crisis with which it appears I am far more familar than you due to our independent, publicly funded (hence "socialist") news media. E

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 8:29:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Brain you don't really have the information correct AGAIN. Social Security money is not in a good safe investment. All surplus money from Social Security has been "loaned" to the US government and spent to support programs in the regular budget. The "trust fund" is holding a pocket full of Government IOUs, from a government who can't balance their budget as it is and has been using the surplus from the trust fund to do that so far. You contradict yourself. Money has been loaned to the US Government which is still considered the safest investment in the world. You still consider the US Government to be a good risk?, LOL Now that's funny. The entire world has been discussing what can be done to prevent the US from having it's credit rating dropped to a B. SSI is an unsecured loan to a congress that is making minimum payments that don't even make the balance drop $1 only paying interest. Banks take people paying that way and reduce their limits. What I consider it is irrelevant, its what world investors consider it. And if you havent noticed, it is still the debt investment of choice worldwide. "That’s a switch from a year earlier, when investors resorted to paying interest to borrowers while lending cash just to obtain Treasuries after the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. None of the securities are what traders call on “special” in a sign that investors don’t expect Europe’s sovereign-debt crisis will curb the global economic recovery, according to data from GovPX Inc., a unit of ICAP Plc, the world’s largest inter-dealer broker. "

Archer -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 8:41:41 AM)
Source noted and given appropriate weight. MY buddies, My this My That,m you partisan hack you wouldn't know MY people if they were standing on your foot.

Brain -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 8:42:22 AM)
There is no need for a limit. They need to stop wasting money in the United States and Canada on war. They seem to find billions of dollars for that very easily in both countries. quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse Raising the limit to $200,000 would be a drop in the bucket. For one thing very few people make that kind of money.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 8:44:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy And its interesting that your initial comment claimed that unsecured loans are responsible for "so many delinquent accounts". I guess you dont know about the foreclosure crisis in the US. sssshhhhhhhhhheeerrrrrrrrrrrrrruffffffffffffffffffffff (a sound with which you may be familar but never had explained; its the sound something makes when it flies right over your head, or possibly and occasionally in one ear and, quite unhindered, straight out the other) I think what youll find is that my comment was about banks' lending practices. Something which played a key part in the foreclosure crisis with which it appears I am far more familar than you due to our independent, publicly funded (hence "socialist") news media. E No m'dear. Your quote was specifically about them not caring what personal loans are spent on. If you wanted to make a more general point about lending practices, you would have. "Your banks take no interest in what you want a personal loan for? They just lend the money? No wonder they got so many delinquent accounts. "

Owner59 -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 8:48:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Archer quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Brain you don't really have the information correct AGAIN. Social Security money is not in a good safe investment. All surplus money from Social Security has been "loaned" to the US government and spent to support programs in the regular budget. The "trust fund" is holding a pocket full of Government IOUs, from a government who can't balance their budget as it is and has been using the surplus from the trust fund to do that so far. You contradict yourself. Money has been loaned to the US Government which is still considered the safest investment in the world. You still consider the US Government to be a good risk?, LOL Now that's funny. The entire world has been discussing what can be done to prevent the US from having it's credit rating dropped to a B. SSI is an unsecured loan to a congress that is making minimum payments that don't even make the balance drop $1 only paying interest. Banks take people paying that way and reduce their limits. What I consider it is irrelevant, its what world investors consider it. And if you havent noticed, it is still the debt investment of choice worldwide. "That’s a switch from a year earlier, when investors resorted to paying interest to borrowers while lending cash just to obtain Treasuries after the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. None of the securities are what traders call on “special” in a sign that investors don’t expect Europe’s sovereign-debt crisis will curb the global economic recovery, according to data from GovPX Inc., a unit of ICAP Plc, the world’s largest inter-dealer broker. " It`s not an investment. It`s an insurance policy. Go ahead,find another insurance company that can beat SS insurance or who won`t toss you off the rolls for whatever reason. Name one.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 8:50:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Archer quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Brain you don't really have the information correct AGAIN. Social Security money is not in a good safe investment. All surplus money from Social Security has been "loaned" to the US government and spent to support programs in the regular budget. The "trust fund" is holding a pocket full of Government IOUs, from a government who can't balance their budget as it is and has been using the surplus from the trust fund to do that so far. You contradict yourself. Money has been loaned to the US Government which is still considered the safest investment in the world. You still consider the US Government to be a good risk?, LOL Now that's funny. The entire world has been discussing what can be done to prevent the US from having it's credit rating dropped to a B. SSI is an unsecured loan to a congress that is making minimum payments that don't even make the balance drop $1 only paying interest. Banks take people paying that way and reduce their limits. What I consider it is irrelevant, its what world investors consider it. And if you havent noticed, it is still the debt investment of choice worldwide. "That’s a switch from a year earlier, when investors resorted to paying interest to borrowers while lending cash just to obtain Treasuries after the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. None of the securities are what traders call on “special” in a sign that investors don’t expect Europe’s sovereign-debt crisis will curb the global economic recovery, according to data from GovPX Inc., a unit of ICAP Plc, the world’s largest inter-dealer broker. " It`s not an investment. It`s an insurance policy. Go ahead,find another insurance company that can beat SS insurance or who won`t toss you off the rolls for whatever reason. Name one. Learn to read. We were talking about US Treasuries.

Archer -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 9:01:34 AM)
Currently the US government owes the Social security trust fund close to 3 trillion dollars. Have we seen any indication that Pay Go actually means anything to the congress? Not just this congress but every congress in lets say the past 4 decades? Democrat or Republican controlled, Democrat or Republican President, doesn't seem to matter none of them have what it takes to tell the people the truth about how they will make the fund solvent. they have all kicked that can down the road 10 ft at a time. Well the insolvency date is approaching and nobody under 45or 50 believes that money will be there for them when it comes their time to collect. What are they going to cut in order to pay the benefits when the wage earners are out numbered by the benefit collectors by a 3:1 ratio? Who's ox is going to get gored and who's going to be the faction screaming about their projects and their priorities going unfunded when the subsidies of SS money goes away and the begining of the time where the government has to subsidize the incomming Social Security taxes in order to make the payments?

Brain -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 9:10:46 AM)
But not mad enough to start a thread on the subject? Unfortunately, I have had my time consumed with the American health-care system, which was the worst healthcare system in the world and still is, thanks Barack. And yet all the threads you have started on health care were about how terrible the US was and how wonderful Canada's system was. And now you have to go to Germany to get help? Interesting. Compared to America Canada’s healthcare system WAS AND STILL IS wonderful. Harpo and the Canadian conservative government are the problem and healthcare in Canada will only get worse under this regime which squandered $1 billion on the G20 summit. And again, no threads started on the subject. Maybe if Sarah moved to Canada? Why would I bore you/people here? Virtually all people here are not interested in Canadian healthcare. You are comparing Arpig to Dick? You do realize he is Canadian, right? Dick can be compare to no one, he is his own unpopular catastrophe. quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: Brain Believe me; I am very unhappy with the Liberals and the Conservatives in Canada and the money they have spent in Afghanistan, $20 billion. Especially because they say they don’t have money for healthcare but then they find 20 billion to spend over there. But not mad enough to start a thread on the subject? I'm sick with multiple sclerosis and I want to do this operation in Canada to stop the disease, an angioplasty of the veins in the neck, but they won’t spend the money to do it now - they want to take 10 years doing clinical trials and I don't have time to wait for that. So I'm going to Germany to do it over there. I found it a doctor to do it and they won’t pay for it over here - reimburse the money I spend. Somebody else tried and she was denied. And yet all the threads you have started on health care were about how terrible the US was and how wonderful Canada's system was. And now you have to go to Germany to get help? Interesting. I complain every day to people I meet about Canadian healthcare and the conservative government. They could also have used that money for prescription drugs and long-term care for seniors. Instead, they give it to poppy growing scumbags so they won’t plant roadside bombs. And again, no threads started on the subject. Maybe if Sarah moved to Canada? By the way, how is that socialized Communist medicine you benefit from and others don’t, working out for you Dick Cheney? You are comparing Arpig to Dick? You do realize he is Canadian, right? quote: You are comparing Arpig to Dick? You do realize he is Canadian, right?

Brain -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 9:14:27 AM)
This is a thoughtful, reasonable answer. quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Actually, the title of this thread indicates the problem. "Here is a problem. This is the solution proposed. There are better means than the proposed solution." Way too myopic. The problem is that there are issues which all of us would love to address, and the money to deal with them is finite. Nobody has formally prioritized the issues and pegged dollar figures to their fixes, in light of the resources which must be committed to other things. Which is odd, because this happens in the private sector all the time and is the preferred method of budgeting.

pahunkboy -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 9:23:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Did you read the news recently about the financial crisis,..... archer? Who did your wallstreet buddies come to, for help? Stomp! [:D] Just imagine all those billions of SS dollars sucked down the drain,along with all the other billions your wallsteet buddies stuffed down the toilet. Let`s not.Thank god we don`t have to. People really should consider just how much of a rip off this was. Trillions to the banks. ...by the time people realize the full effects- it is too late.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 9:39:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Currently the US government owes the Social security trust fund close to 3 trillion dollars. Have we seen any indication that Pay Go actually means anything to the congress? Not just this congress but every congress in lets say the past 4 decades? Democrat or Republican controlled, Democrat or Republican President, doesn't seem to matter none of them have what it takes to tell the people the truth about how they will make the fund solvent. they have all kicked that can down the road 10 ft at a time. Well the insolvency date is approaching and nobody under 45or 50 believes that money will be there for them when it comes their time to collect. What are they going to cut in order to pay the benefits when the wage earners are out numbered by the benefit collectors by a 3:1 ratio? Who's ox is going to get gored and who's going to be the faction screaming about their projects and their priorities going unfunded when the subsidies of SS money goes away and the begining of the time where the government has to subsidize the incomming Social Security taxes in order to make the payments? Phase in full retirement age of 70, which is where workers are headed anyway, and voila, problem solved.

Archer -> RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt (6/28/2010 9:45:10 AM)
I disagree change retirement age to 70 and the can is kicked down the road another 10 feet. More of the same crap that got us to this stage. No solving of the problem happens until you get the US government actually reducing their regular budget items enough to cover the gap and pay back the 3 trillion dollars. and since we have only GROWING Deficit Spending, the idea that they are capable of actually cutting spending enough that they pay on principle seem remote at best.

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