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Were you converted? - 6/28/2010 3:48:07 PM   
shallowdeep


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/1/2006
From: California
Status: offline 		There are occasional threads about "converting" ostensibly vanilla individuals into kinky ones, most recently this interesting one started by Andalusite. As was pointed out in that thread by Akasha, turning a woman on to dominance may be a bit more difficult than getting a man interested in submission – a request to consider it "for me" doesn't seem to fit the nature of the dynamic quite as well. Still, there are perhaps ways to make the presentation more an exploration of an appetizing new menu than the chore of a long, dirty laundry list.

In any event, I imagine at least a few women who did not consider themselves dominant, or even kink-aware, had their exposure to the idea of being "dominant" (a term I'm using as a catch-all encompassing topping stuff as well) through interaction with an admittedly submissive, or "bottom-y", individual. If you fit that description and are reading this board, I assume the encounter managed to have some appeal. I would love to hear your thoughts about why this ended up being something that held your interest. Or, if you're still just curious, why it piqued your curiosity.

Some points that might bear discussion: How did the subject come up? In what context – a relationship, a casual discussion with a random stranger, something else? How was the interest in submission presented, and what was appealing, or not, about that presentation to you? How did it make you feel? Did something in particular turn you on? Was there anything that turned you off about it? How long did it take to become genuinely interested or comfortable in a dominant role? In retrospect, do you feel you held a latent predisposition for such things, or was it something you acquired a taste for from your exposure? Was your interest because of the sub and they way they presented things, or in spite of it? Is there anything you wish had been done differently, either by you or the 'seductive' submissive?

I know there are fairly frequent threads seeking advice on converting a wife/girlfriend/etc. – but I'm hoping this will develop into something a bit different. Much of the advice in those other threads is potentially relevant, but I would like this to be more of a discussion about personal experiences from the perspective of "the converted." Assuming some do, in fact, walk (read?) amongst us…

To give this thread a bit of a broader appeal, if you consider yourself more "naturally" dominant, I have some slightly different, but hopefully related questions:

Has there ever been a specific activity that you were originally not interested in, or even put off by, that a submissive managed to spark your interest in? As above, what made the presentation appealing? Asking the fungible femdom to hold still while ensuring that she will fit your irreplaceable strap-on harness may not be the best approach. But what, for you, does work? Or do you prefer that submissive partners not bring up their kinks? If the latter, is that because you like discovering a submissive's buttons on your own, or do you just prefer to have them adapt to your own interests exclusively?

That was a bit long - thanks for reading and, perhaps, sharing. Do cookies work as incentive on dominants as well as they work on submissives? Because I actually can bake...
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RE: Were you converted? - 6/28/2010 5:15:29 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		OK.  The easiest question to answer out of all of that is that yes, cookies work.  How could you trust anyone that doesn't like chocolate chip cookies?

I actually have one of the most bullshit sounding stories on how I got involved in all of this the first time around.  You'd swear that I took it right out of some Penthouse Forum kind of thing because it so rarely ever really happens to anybody (I've only ever found two that I actually believed with similar stories) that people who don't know Me find it so off the wall that they don't know what to think.  Yes, I'm the token gal who literally had somebody kneel down in front of Me and ask Me to be his Mistress.  Yes, out of the blue.  No, there was no prior romantic relationship established between us.  We happened to be friends and co-workers at the time.

One thing that I think anyone reading this should understand is that I had no flipping idea of what the hell he meant at the time.  Be his Mistress?  What in the hell was that supposed to mean?  What worked in his favor is that I've got a curiosity and inquisitive nature that doesn't stop.  I was authentically interested from an intellectual point of view.  I wanted to learn about it, even if it had never been something that I had sought out before.  Sorry to disappoint, but it wasn't especially a turn on and there wasn't a ton of kink involved in it. 

Ah, but when I started meeting people, there were two aspects about this M/s stuff that pulled Me in.  Power and protocol.  The appreciating the formality of protocol had instant appeal to Me.  Power had appeal, but I had to kind of grow into that. 

I'm probably going to take some flack for this, but that first year as a Dominant woman, it's kind of hard to amount to much.  I had the slave and all, and even though I was doing all I could to learn as much as I could, I didn't really know what I was doing.  At the same time, I was fighting this stereotype of what people thought I was supposed to be.  That uber bitch persona was around long before I showed up and I can promise you that porn had a better influence than I did.  Oh yeah.  I was supposed to automatically be a sadist too, and I was far from it.  

That whole first year was really about Me finding Myself.  Learning information, gaining confidence, and figuring out where My place was in all of this.  I had a better grip on it when I collared that first boy in 1999.  Unfortunately, we just had too many incompatibilities.  I'll spare the reader the boring details about that, even though it's a good walk down memory lane for Me.

The sadism kicked in later.  I went through the same process.  I stumbled, fell, and picked Myself up again a few times.  This all in the process of being very much in love with a vanilla guy who didn't understand a damn bit of it and I did a lousy job of bringing it to the table.  I couldn't tell you what changed in Me.  Sadism was just suddenly there.  I'm pretty sure it had something to do with nobody expecting it of Me so I could come to it on My own.  I couldn't tell you if I had resisted it for that reason before or it just really wasn't a part of Me before that.  I had pet as a sub then, but I don't think that was it.  Something changed gears in My brain that I don't have a good explanation for.  I don't know what to tell you there.

I feel like I've rambled on in My attempt to answer your questions.  I've probably failed miserably because I'm just not eloquent enough to explain to you the thoughts and feelings that went on inside of Me during all of these transitional phases.  It's very difficult to allow you the picture show that is happening in My mind when trying to cover all of this material.  The only reason that I haven't erased it all is because someone out there might have felt the same things and it might be a help to them. 


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Were you converted? - 6/28/2010 6:00:10 PM   
hopelesslyInvo


Posts: 522
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: the future
Status: offline 		i wouldn't go so far as to say i had a full change of heart, or that the conversion was full scale anyway.

i always looked up to women in a similar fashion; fantasizing about the acceptance i could find with a particular person, something that wasn't common place in my life.

as far as change went, i was moreover self-converted once i became aware; i didn't need anyone to coerce me, i just needed someone to throw a line in the water. 

fascinated by a flesh-and-blood incarnation of something that was reminiscent of my previous desires ignited a spark of plausibility.  from there my curiosity was like quicksand; when i'd feel guilty or shameful from indulging my inquisitive pursuits, i'd struggle to dismiss and ignore it only to have my thoughts become more obsessive and centered on it due to the impact it had on me.

eventually acceptance set in, and from there appreciation finally started to grow.

in the beginning though there were certainly moments of guilt and 'quickly made conclusions' that bdsm and much of what it often entails were simply "wrong" to partake or have interest in.  mostly the hook was baited from nothing more than my lack of an alpha personality.

at this point, it feels like such a path should have always been obvious to me.  it strikes me as odd to think that it took as much as it did to change my perspective around.


< Message edited by hopelesslyInvo -- 6/28/2010 6:05:54 PM >

_____________________________

great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

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RE: Were you converted? - 6/28/2010 6:26:14 PM   
shallowdeep


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/1/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The easiest question to answer out of all of that is that yes, cookies work. How could you trust anyone that doesn't like chocolate chip cookies?

Good to know. I actually don't have any chocolate chip cookies at the moment but, if you like chocolate, perhaps a slice of chocolate raspberry torte will be an adequate substitute for being the first to respond?

quote:

I've probably failed miserably because I'm just not eloquent enough to explain to you the thoughts and feelings that went on inside of Me during all of these transitional phases.

Not at all. I enjoyed the thoughtful answer, even if you aren't entirely satisfied with it. Articulating exactly how things happen in the less than logical parts of our minds isn't an easy task, but I really appreciate you taking the time to share some insight into the process you went through.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Were you converted? - 6/28/2010 7:48:57 PM   
Steponme73


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline 		Great response Lady Pact!!! Thank you so much for sharing with us. Very, very interesting.

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RE: Were you converted? - 6/28/2010 8:02:48 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		You are both entirely too kind.  Thank you very much.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Steponme73)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Were you converted? - 6/28/2010 8:04:57 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I have to say, LP, your story is always fun but I TOTALLY forgot the links to a Certain Irishman!! You weren't.... wearing BOOTS at the time, were you??

Had to. Not sorry.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



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RE: Were you converted? - 6/29/2010 11:26:05 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		First let me say I am sorry about the length of this, but I just don't know how to explain my evolution with less words.

There was a turning point in my life where one could say I crossed over. I went from a little girl who watched everything, learned anything she could, preferred playing with boys at boy type activity and beating them at their own game. I became a very aware teen who was the leader of the pack, let her boyfriends know they were in charge until they were about to screw up and then took charge and stayed in that place. I was taught men were supposed to be in charge, but they really weren’t. We just convinced them they were and really ruled the situation, which I found manipulative, but because I understood how it was supposed to be I just gave my opinions about it all and tried to work it out. Kind of like the little kid in school picked on by bullies that stood there, looked them in the eye and said… oh yeah… fist clenched and determined to show them what was what. I tried it mom’s way, found my own through experiencing relationships where men were in charge and yet I found I was better at being in charge. So I decided it was going to be different and to hell with how society or the women in my life did it. I was going to do it my way. I wanted to be in charge.

I went on to have two role reversal relationships where I worked and supported us and they stayed home and took very good care of me. I called them my male wives. It wasn’t a sexual thing, but an independence thing and I just felt I took on the male role. I liked it better, but I was all woman and soft, cuddly and nurturing until I had to be in your face, telling you how it was going to be. I worked for others, but I was the next person to the owner. I was in charge of the day to day running of the business.

Working for social change in areas I felt were unfair, my first cause was fathers rights. My second was domestic abuse and women and childrens issues. I thought dominance was an ugly word and therefore submission had to be as well, because I saw the ugly sides of these things and the damage done because of them. I could not relate how I lived and was true to who I was, to this ugliness and didn’t see what I did as dominance. I was simply a leader and in charge.

I was doing some research and became aware of bdsm through a dominant male I met online who became a problem for me, that I needed to understand. That was my great turning point in life. While repulsed by it all, I was strangely drawn to it. I had to figure it out. The more I googled, the more I read, the more I interacted with those in the lifestyle, I saw myself in the dominant men. I was reading about the type of person I was. I was very fortunate to have found some amazing people in the lifestyle and found their character to be amazingly close to mine and I saw the beauty of what could be shared in a d/s relationship. I’d been living it quite a bit in my life and had no clue, no titles, nothing set in stone, but for the most part, I lived a female led life. Now I had words to describe what I had been doing. I never paid attention to things I saw kink-wise as I had a pretty fulfilling life and sexual happiness where I did love the power of the turn on and what I could do to a man. But that was it and boy oh boy this new world I had found was very interesting and I actually found I fit. It clarified things for me.

When I read what Lady Pact says it just rings all sorts of bells and I wonder that with more time, will I too find that sadistic streak in me? I have had no interest in much sadism and considered myself very mild in kink, but very much in lead. But the longer I am around and when I have someone I wish to play with, I do find that curiosity, desire and the look of my man whom I am feeding off of, inspires a bit more sadism in me. So I consider myself a baby steppin sadist who wasn’t all into it, but is seeing the potential for growth in this area. LOL I still consider myself basically a woman who wants to live a female led life, but who has some kinky aspects to her sensual dominance. How I mature as a sadist is yet to be discovered. I doubt seriously that I will ever go to places other dominant women have, but that’s okay with me. I am happy where I am.

So a man brought me to a turning point. All the men of my life did, but one showed me what I had no clue about and it wasn’t a submissive man who changed me, but a dominant man that helped explain me by leading me to people into bdsm and d/s. I want to know the kink of a man I am interested in, but I will be in charge of when and how that comes out. When I feel I am ready, they are ready and the relationship is ready, it will be discussed and explored. So something of a relationship of some sort has to be in place before I am open to suggestion or even an interest. Some people bring out my dominant feelings and that grrr just comes from deep inside. I kind of think that there has to be something, maybe hidden inside a woman that leans towards dominance as well as a bit of the submissive in vanilla men who might be converted as you say. In my opinion, something has to be there in the first place, but that is from my view and experience. I could be totally wrong.


_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


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RE: Were you converted? - 6/29/2010 2:08:56 PM   
Steponme73


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline 		Again, Lockit a great post. It helps define for us who you are and why...I think that is very, very interesting.

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RE: Were you converted? - 6/29/2010 2:56:10 PM   
SnowRanger


Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
Status: offline 		Lady Pact, that was well stated. I sent you a back channel message off topic.

Hello A/all,

My awareness of my D/s and Female Dominance desires came pretty early in my life. I have heard one Domme state that , "You have to have the chip (in your brain)." I cant say that one HAS to have a BDSM chip; but it is true in my case.

I am forced to wonder: Were LadyPact and Lockit "converted" from vanilla to kink or are these stories of them realizing and accepting their own natures.

The reason I bring this up is this. My biggest fear is to become involved with a 'vanilla' woman (and subsequently 'converting' her to the lifestyle) only to discover that she considers any FemDom play we might engage in to be a chore or worse.

I have one funny thing to share slightly off topic... or not.... I was recently taking a class to improve my Winter SnowRanging activities. I was seated at a table with a sweet young woman (who looked GREAT in the sundress she wore). At one point she mentioned that she needed a foot stool.... NO!.. I didn't... But it did cross my mind to make the offer. The things that held me back were that I would be unable to pay attention to the presentation; and, that other people were present. The truth be told, I wasn't worried about HER reaction. HMMMM... I wonder....

Respectfully,
Mike
SnowRanger

_____________________________

You can't help where you were born; and, you may not have much to say about where you die; but, you can and you should try to pass the days in between as a good man.
Anton Myrer Once an Eagle

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RE: Were you converted? - 6/29/2010 3:03:35 PM   
shallowdeep


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/1/2006
From: California
Status: offline 		Steponme73 already beat me to it, but I wanted to add my thanks for the very thoughtful post explaining your evolution, Lockit.

quote:

That was my great turning point in life. While repulsed by it all, I was strangely drawn to it. I had to figure it out.

I found this pretty interesting, and wanted to ask just a few questions about it. Was the draw mostly intellectual initially? Or was it a more visceral feeling that the dynamic would fit you and the leadership roles you had already naturally assumed? What did you find repulsive? How long did it take the repulsion to fade?

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RE: Were you converted? - 6/29/2010 3:34:42 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		SnowRanger, It is good to see you around!

I am not sure people are converted. I think we all have personality traits or deeply rooted feelings that can be enhanced or that will grow in the right situation. There isn't a man alive that is dominant that could make me submit unless there was a bit of submission in me. There have been men I submitted to in different ways and times in life, but I found I was the stronger of the two eventually and that small bit of submissive in me just wasn't strong enough to last or be of much worth, although beautiful. I wasn't born kinky and yet someone could say through my evolution, I was converted to kink. I was always sexually active and well... I did like exploring things but that is a human factor we all have. What we do with it is the evolution I think.

I don't believe I could ever convert anyone. I could play kinky and entice them though! Play on what is already there, that may not be known or experienced at that point. I do go for vanilla men. lol They might get stuck on that kneeling thing and my being lead in all of life, but given enough time and the right fit for both of us... not a problem. I still don't think I converted them. lol


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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


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RE: Were you converted? - 6/29/2010 3:45:45 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shallowdeep

Steponme73 already beat me to it, but I wanted to add my thanks for the very thoughtful post explaining your evolution, Lockit.

quote:

That was my great turning point in life. While repulsed by it all, I was strangely drawn to it. I had to figure it out.

I found this pretty interesting, and wanted to ask just a few questions about it. Was the draw mostly intellectual initially? Or was it a more visceral feeling that the dynamic would fit you and the leadership roles you had already naturally assumed? What did you find repulsive? How long did it take the repulsion to fade?


I am sending thanks to Stepon for his comments and thank you as well.

At first I just wanted to understand this person who had entered my life and wasn't going away without a real struggle. The word dominance to me was ugly, it repulsed me because of the damage I had seen from dominance that was abuse rather than a leadership quality or personality type. There were pictures along with threats of what this man thought I needed go through to become the submissive I really needed to be that horrified me! I was repulsed by the extreme torture and damage done to the women in those pictures and yet... in reading, in getting to know lifestylers, I was seeing who I was and was drawn to the dynamics and some of the kink. It was quite the conflict for me until I could understand the word dominance in a different light.

I would say it took about six months to stop being repulsed. Took another six months before I admitted I did want to be a dominant and kinky and had explored a number of things in d/s and kink, before I really committed to it all. I had some time as an online submissive during a time when my son was brain damaged and I was fighting the world and needed down time, but we both knew I would be up and running soon and couldn't submit for long. It just wasn't in me to. What is funny, after I got my footing he was sure tempted to switch with me. I think we just loved one another very much and took from one another whatever our strengths were. On my feet again, I found a submissive and the rest is history.


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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


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RE: Were you converted? - 6/29/2010 4:02:40 PM   
Ladynslave


Posts: 376
Joined: 7/30/2009
Status: offline 		Converted, not exactly.  Essentially I was led back to a kink that I had left years ago and wasn't interested in returning to.

Many years ago, I was a Pro-Dom.  One night, a 90-year-old gentleman asked me to split the skin of his back open.  I managed some bruises while thinking the whole time that this poor guy was going to die and his kids were going to want an explanation for these marks.  I quit right after that session and didn't look back for many years.

I met my current slave in a completely vanilla setting.  About 6 months into our relationship, we started discussing our fantasies.  This was his and I got the last image of my Pro-Dom career in my head and flat refused.  He was persistent in getting me to try little things after fulfilling some of my major fantasies, so I went along with it.  As I relaxed and started trying more things and doing some research to find other things I would be comfortable doing, it kind of evolved from there.  I found that this didn't have to be about split skin and worries about what family might find out.  I hit my stride and our relationship both strengthened and deepened.

I don't really think that anyone else could have led me back to this gently enough to not having me fighting all the way or simply ending the relationship.  I have never been happier in a relationship than I am in this one.  I am very glad for the way he went about it.  He could not have returned me to myself any other way.


_____________________________

Women and cats will do what they please. Men and dogs need to relax and get used to the idea.

If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.

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RE: Were you converted? - 6/29/2010 5:36:55 PM   
shallowdeep


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/1/2006
From: California
Status: offline 		Thanks for the contribution of your experience being "led back," Ladynslave; it definitely fits under what I was interested in.

quote:

I am very glad for the way he went about it.  He could not have returned me to myself any other way.

Based on the wording, I assume you very much consider this a "natural" role, despite being turned off it for some time by the disturbing session? Were their any issues with the balance between being gentle and being persistent in the way he went about it? How long after you began discussing fantasies did it take for you to become more relaxed about trying things?

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RE: Were you converted? - 6/29/2010 5:53:13 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		ShallowDeep, I'm glad you enjoyed my thread! Reading "The Pearl" (Victorian BDSM erotica) initially sparked my interest, but was far more extreme than I could envision wanting to actually do with anyone. It fed my fantasies, but it never occurred to me that it could transition into reality. When I was 20, I started dating the man who became my submissive for 5 years. We'd known each other and spent a lot of time together before our first date, and he made a couple of jokes/entendres that were a bit kinky, including one about being beaten with licorice whips. Around the 3rd or 4th date, he told me that he liked being tied up and spanked. I was a bit tentative for the first few months, while I figured out what I wanted, what he liked, what I liked him not liking, and came to terms with my sadism. Dominance developed right along with it along the way, gradually ramping up as the trust developed, and I became more confident.

I tried a bit of bottoming in my next relationship, but didn't feel submissive toward anyone for over 5 years after I'd first discovered I could enjoy being thwacked as well. I had quite a few people try to "convert" me or convince me that I was submissive, and I got rather argumentative and defensive about it. The first time I felt submissive, it completely took me by surprise. I didn't want a D/s dynamic on the terms he offered me, but I did wind up as a submissive for 3 years, and most recently as a slave for 1 year since then. All told, I have 16 years of experience doing some form of BDSM, with or without power exchange, and haven't had a completely vanilla relationship since. I still discover new things that I had no idea I'd like until I try them, so I keep an open mind.

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RE: Were you converted? - 6/30/2010 4:27:17 PM   
Ladynslave


Posts: 376
Joined: 7/30/2009
Status: offline 		Yes, it was a natural role in that I have to be in control of my life.  I also grew up in a single mother household with an absentee father so my role model was a strong woman who held everything together and kept it all going on her own.  There were some issues, not so much in the balance of gentle and persistent, but in that things can and will go wrong and he basically had to start all over when something did as my aversion kicked back in.  It took about 3 months before I started to relax and another 6 months before I started exploring on my own.  There are some things that I am still not comfortable with 3 years later, but it's getting better.  We are even beginning to explore things together that we both held as hard limits.  (Guess they were soft limits.  LOL)

_____________________________

Women and cats will do what they please. Men and dogs need to relax and get used to the idea.

If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.

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RE: Were you converted? - 7/1/2010 2:31:27 AM   
shallowdeep


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/1/2006
From: California
Status: offline 		Andalusite,
Thank you for your response and for starting the thread that, in part, sparked this one. I liked your focus on actual experiences being the "converter" in that thread and thought if would be interesting to also see experiences of the "convertee", to understand what the appeal was like from that perspective. So far I've really enjoyed all the very thoughtful responses. Out of curiosity, before you got sweetly seduced with sugary whip jokes, were your fantasies fed by reading "The Pearl" focused primarily (or exclusively) on playing a particular role (e.g. top, submissive, etc.)? Or did they simply have kinky tones with flexible roles?

Lockit and Ladynslave,
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my followup questions!

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Profile   Post #: 18
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