The Real Palestinian Revolution? (Full Version)

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Level -> The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/1/2010 5:41:52 AM)

Article on the Palestinian stock exchange:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/opinion/30friedman.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general

This paragraph made a lot of sense:

quote:

Now the mood, said Hulileh, is that improving the Palestinian economy “is what will enable you to resist and be steadfast. Fayyad said to us: ‘You, the business community, are not responsible for ending occupation. You are responsible for employing people and getting ready for the state. And that means you have to be part of the global world, to export and import, so when the state will come you will not have a garbage yard. You will be ready.’ ”


Now, can this progress be made, as well as progress in Palestine and Israel making peace?




DarkSteven -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/1/2010 6:52:55 AM)

Best news out of the Middle East in years.  Quit throwing rocks at Israelis, and put your energy to use.  If they concern themselves with things like building businesses, developing their own resources, etc., it will kill off the current unhealthy dynamic.

Lotsa Arabs uncomfortable with this...




servantforuse -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/1/2010 7:22:44 AM)

Not only will they have to quit throwing rocks, they will have to stop the suicide bombers and stop launching missles into Isreal.




LadyEllen -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/1/2010 7:43:18 AM)

Sounds like a plan to generate funding for terrorist activities to me. I suggest a couple of airstrikes, lots of phosphorous shells and an occupation to sort it out and capture the ringleaders (businessmen, yeah right).

You know it makes sense.

E




cassandria -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/1/2010 6:49:10 PM)

If a wall went up around your water, which was how your ancestral homes and crops flourished, perhaps you'd have issues too.

BOTH sides have the right to be screaming at the other. Don't use some phucking arab stereotype to feed it, but look at the facts, at the reality. Not everyone is so easily accepting and diplomatic.

"current unhealthy dynamic"

that current dynamic is being fed by other countries, not merely their own.

I have such strong feelings - for both sides - but for the life of me, I can't see how the situation will end. Not without a huge loss of life, culture and freedom. And if that is the edifice upon which you feel that Israel should flourish - well, better you than me.





LadyEllen -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/1/2010 7:29:52 PM)

OMG Cassandria, youre so far "off message" here that I have to ask - "are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party?"

This craziness brought to you by Fucks & Fiends; sponsors of right wing bigotry

E




willbeurdaddy -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/1/2010 8:31:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cassandria

If a wall went up around your water, which was how your ancestral homes and crops flourished, perhaps you'd have issues too.




They had no ancestral homes. There was no such thing as Palestine or a Palestinian till it became expedient to invent them after the formation of Israel.




LadyEllen -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/1/2010 9:20:05 PM)

No such thing as Palestine? Sure I recall it being marked quite clearly on those nearly-all-pink maps of the British Empire pre WW2. Wonder what one might have called those Arabs living in that part of the Empire.........

Ah! I got it! "Terrorists"

E




DCWoody -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/1/2010 9:31:04 PM)

Palestinians = the Philistines from the bible. They've been around.




Termyn8or -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/1/2010 10:47:06 PM)

"Best news out of the Middle East in years"

What are you to suggest that those people adopt "our" way of handling an economy in this mess ?

The fact of the matter is that my ancestors came to this country because their countries were being run by people who were unfavorable to them. They admitted defeat and moved the fuck out. But the Palestinians are too hard headed for that. All they have to do is leave, just like the Jews should've before they got persecuted in Germany. They had plenty of chance. Well this is the Palestinians' chance.

There is still, at least for now enough places to go with a much less harsh existence, and to better their lives instead of mucking it up with all this financial shit. But like I said they are too hardheaded. If my own ancestors can admit defeat, and go to a more favorable land, why can't they ?

And if you knew anything about my ancestors you would agree. I am sure it was hard for them. I used to champion Blacks at one time because my view at the time is at least they were dragged away in chains, they did not run away. But with extant conditions I have realized the folly of accusing them in that respect. When the going gets tough the tough get going. You can take that two different ways. They got going - away. That applies to damnear evey Euro-American in this country's ancestors. They lived to fight another day.

And then they, like my Greatgrandparents, can tell their children and their children's children about how it was in the old country. You see, only some of us have the advantage of that experience. I had to really search to justify it. How can they ever be loyal to this country when they had abandoned their homeland ?

That is their best course, petition, just like the Jews did to get Israel, for their own land, somewhere else. Or go into diaspora for a time. Whichever suits their purposes. Whichever it is they are in an environment right now that is so unfriendly and non-conducive to success they will never win.

What's more to fall into the trap the rest of us have fallen into is about the stupidest thing they could do. All they need is somewhere to go.

Other than that it is a religious war to them, and some of them, like any others, are caught up into that so heavily that they will never see reality. My people saw reality and did well here. Should I leave ? Should I leave amidst all the problems coming to fruition now ? No, there are still certain things that make this remain my country. When those go, I will not hesitate to leave, I just don't know exactly where to go. Perhaps Russia or England. They both equally lack the factors that keep me here.

Hard work used to pay off here, and alot of people made fortunes here. Seeing the difference many inventors around the world emmigrated here. And the fact is many of the major innovations invented here years past were concieved by immigrants. But somehow they saw the opportunities in the old country too limited. So they left.

Like in a game of chess, your opponent has a full set of pieces but you are only left with  pawn and a king. You really think you can checkmate them with that arsenal ?

A Palestinian stock market is by far the worst way to go.

That's my opinion, but let them do what they want. I know alot more than most about their plight, but that yields very few solutions. But I would never go for it, especially if I knew anything about the world economy.

All I know is that while it may have not been true forever, getting into a similar economy for them would be a disaster, and what's more a sign of capitulation, and if they are this stubborn now, I don't even want to think about it.

But no, can't do it and let the infidels have the holy land. What a bunch of bullshit.

But nobody else sees it that way. Is that pragmatic ? I am beyond all the petty bickering about who did what and when, it is war. If you can't win, why waste resources on it ?

Fucking humans, we would be better off without them.

T




thishereboi -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/2/2010 4:49:17 AM)

quote:

This craziness brought to you by Fucks & Fiends; sponsors of right wing bigotry


So who sponsors the left wing bigotry and have you gotten your t-shirt yet?




LadyEllen -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/2/2010 7:14:58 AM)

Silly! Dont you understand yet that bigotry is a purely reactionary right wing gig?

E




cassandria -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/2/2010 6:29:01 PM)

errr...

If you are of Palestinian nationality, or your roots are - you may have another passport from a neighboring country, due to immigrating there during one of the infamous intifada's for example (Jordan, Iraq, etc), you will have an *extremely* difficult time travelling anywhere - including within the Middle East - much less gaining entrance to another country.

Even amongst my friends here, who have legitimately married, love their spouses and share children etc, 6...7..8..years, and still no passport. And this is Canada, one of the more lenient countries in terms of immigration. The criteria is extremely difficult to meet, and gaining paperwork from regions who are renowned for not posessing this - or where it requires vast amounts of money for said paperwork to be released (see "wasta" for example lol), it's nearly impossible. It's kinda common knowledge within the local community here - marry a Palestinian, be sure the paperwork is already finished, and know that you're not moving around much.

I think those Palestinians who can leave, who recognize that after decades that life isn't going to get any easier anytime soon, that they're willing to leave. Just realize that the process ain't that simple.





kittinSol -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/2/2010 6:31:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

All they have to do is leave, just like the Jews should've before they got persecuted in Germany. They had plenty of chance.



You really are a fucking pig [:)] .




cassandria -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/2/2010 6:32:52 PM)

quote:

OMG Cassandria, youre so far "off message" here that I have to ask - "are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party?"

This craziness brought to you by Fucks & Fiends; sponsors of right wing bigotry

E


How can an opinion be "off message", I wonder?

And no, I've never been a member of any politically-inclined party.





cassandria -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/2/2010 6:39:52 PM)

Whether their homes were understood to be deeded to them or not via paperwork in a country that became known as "Palestine", I can tell you that if your family name and property is old enough that every grandparent remembers the stories told to them by their grandparents and so on and so forth that it's a pretty good indicator that the land was considered to be "yours".

In arabic, btw, the word "Palestine" is "Filistine". So whoever said that it was from the Philistines mentioned in the bible, I think you have a winner [:)] One of the many tribes in the region.





cassandria -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/2/2010 6:46:22 PM)

To clarify, I can probably take both sides on this issue - having grandparents in the Netherlands during WWII who were imprisoned for their part in assisting jewish neighbors to freedom, it's not that I'm unsympathetic to the need for a Jewish Nation.

I'm simply going to say that there has been a tremendous lack of honour and fairness, or exhibition of faith on either side. And it continues.

Having passion for your home isn't wrong. Most people consider it to be normal. And both the jewish people and the arab people have a *lot* of passion on this issue. Both have reason to.




thishereboi -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/3/2010 5:53:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Silly! Dont you understand yet that bigotry is a purely reactionary right wing gig?

E



Well I understand that a lot of posters on CM think it is. I just always thought you were above that. Lately I am not so sure.




Termyn8or -> RE: The Real Palestinian Revolution? (7/3/2010 1:06:57 PM)

"You really are a fucking pig "

You have been fooled, I am a mirror.

T




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