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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/5/2010 10:11:09 PM   
zzz4xxx


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/1/2010
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quote:

No one seems to think I need to change any part of myself, and that's making life look like it might be a lot simpler than my brain has made it. Thanks a lot, brain...
ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Be careful about laying the blame at your brain's feet for having a hand in it. The anatomical confusion could wind up being worse than the original puzzlement. Just saying...as they say.

Most thoughts are unnecessary and occur as punishment to people who should otherwise be staying busy getting me a beer and doing my laundry.

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 3:53:09 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

While owning your body and exploring your sexuality might be empowering it by no means makes you a feminist.


No it doesn't.................but it also doesn't make you, not a feminist.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 7:00:10 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		It would be equally ridiculous to say that feminism means that women cannot be Dominant, as they cannot be submissive.

Feminism simply means that they have the option to select their own roles in life.


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"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 7:17:02 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Today when someone says that they are a feminist I just think they have too much time on their hands or are just looking for a fight.

There are a few hurdles left to clear but for the most part your future is your own and the old boys club mentality has been greatly disbanded.

If you are concerned about the welfare of women on a global level than go get'em tiger!!! Much to be done!

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 8:21:01 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

Feminism simply means that they have the option to select their own roles in life.


The main character of this movie inspired me quite a bit.

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 8:32:40 AM   
jujubeeMB


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Joined: 1/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
There are a few hurdles left to clear but for the most part your future is your own and the old boys club mentality has been greatly disbanded.


Boy, do I wish that was true...

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 8:58:25 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		A new thread that you might find of interest..
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3298356/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#3298400


If you are continually having problems...There is a very good chance it is with you and not because you are a woman.

Some of my vaginal gifted friend sometimes complain about their run ins with their penile inclined colleagues. But there are dicks everywhere.

Bonus!!!! There are also sexual harassment lawyers just waiting to hear your tales of woe.
.
You no longer get the pat on the ass for a job well done. Oh for the good ol' days.

However, for the huge majority of women in the work place they receive the shame shitty treatment they do from their female employers and colleagues as they do from their male.

There are always exception and that is why there are always a pile of lawyers waiting for their 3rd.


If you are continually having problems then you are the common denominator in all of these equations.


Nice nip!!!

< Message edited by domiguy -- 7/6/2010 8:59:24 AM >

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 9:44:07 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		~FR~... apologies in advance if this has already been mentioned.

To me, the key aspect of note in feminism is the freedom for women to -choose- their path... My struggle with the "feminist movement", so to speak, is that it seemed to me that the goal was to force women to choose (1) not to have kids (2) not to be a home-maker (3) not to choose to be submissive.... EVEN if that was the individual woman's most comfortable expression of self.... and to me, that is the reason that I've never been an active "feminist" in the sense of participating in the "women's organizations" and all of that.

To me, the goal of the human being focuses on self-actualization... becoming fully what one IS, and learning to express that honestly in the world, and I find that goal compelling and completely disregarding of gender or orientation. To me, genuine "feminism", as in "respect for women's ability and right to choose the way they want to live their lives" would then include, without accusation, self-loathing, or malice, things like choosing to become a mother, choosing to be a 'stay-at-home' mom, choosing to be a home-maker with or without children, choosing to yield authority... as long as that was the way the woman in question felt fulfilled, NOBODY else, other women included, would have the right to restrict that essential right of expression.

To me, "feminism" as it is often preached is just as limiting as misogynism... and what is worse is that we are doing it to OURSELVES.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 7/6/2010 9:45:24 AM >

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 9:54:29 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
There are a few hurdles left to clear but for the most part your future is your own and the old boys club mentality has been greatly disbanded.


Boy, do I wish that was true...


It IS true, compare the life we women in the West have with the life women in the West have and the life some women who don't live in the West have. Yes there are areas that still need work but on the whole we lead a pretty fucking fantastic life.

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The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 10:03:40 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Agreed NG. I do believe that most feminists would find the use of the picture as a lure to be actually dishonorable and contrary to the tenants of feminism.

That having been said, I think one can have feminist beliefs and not follow all the teachings and ideals that the entire philosophy embodies.

I have found that when people say I am a feminist it can mean a variety of different things.




Certainly there are radical feminist who are against a woman using her body for anything. Again, they are RADICAL. That is not the feminism of today. It isn't simply a matter of picking and choosing what you want to follow. Feminism isn't a "philosophy."


Which was why I asked him what wave of feminist theory he was talking about. He seems to be stuck in the 1960s

_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 10:13:51 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth


quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
There are a few hurdles left to clear but for the most part your future is your own and the old boys club mentality has been greatly disbanded.


Boy, do I wish that was true...


It IS true, compare the life we women in the West have with the life women in the West have and the life some women who don't live in the West have. Yes there are areas that still need work but on the whole we lead a pretty fucking fantastic life.


Yes, of course we have a better life here, but do not discount what is still happening. In business, the old boys club still rules and if you think otherwise, you are sadly mistaken. Especially in certain fields, it still runs rampant.


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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 10:14:22 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

males as well as females want acknowledgement and to be empowered.


Which is something that today's feminism addresses... women have husbands, fathers, brothers and sons.. human empowerment leads to female empowerment.

Give you an example of how this plays out in the real world... Right now women are getting hired more than men because we get less pay. This is not good for women. We need the menin our life to make money. They need to make money. They are not finding jobs because of the wage gap.... this is a problem for ALL of us. It is in a man's interest to advocate for equal pay, and it works this way in all other spheres, when women get a fair shake in this world, the men in her life benefit.


I did a program evaluation of the leadership academy on the campus of my university. I found that the females outnumbered males two to one in joining this academy. Those I presented my findings to (that the leadership academy needed to appeal to more men) had a hard time understanding why I was disturbed by this trend. They thought it was great that women were being empowered to be good leaders, and they could not understand why it is a problem that men didn't join. They saw men as having these qualities innately... this is academics that had this prejudice. We need people to be empowered to be good leaders, and men compromise 50% of the population. Modern "feminists" advocate for this

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 10:39:09 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Yes, of course we have a better life here, but do not discount what is still happening. In business, the old boys club still rules and if you think otherwise, you are sadly mistaken. Especially in certain fields, it still runs rampant.


This is true..

Although it has been slightly more than a decade ago, I had been the victim of sexual harassment from three different employers... starting when I was 26... I was a young single mom and if I would have attempted to sue I probably wouldn't have been successful, and I would have been blackballed in the area from getting further employment. I made the choice three times to get a new job. The women who were willing to bang management, well they got better shifts, etc...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 10:51:40 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		All men are pigs.

Too bad we own everything.

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 10:57:53 AM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Yes, of course we have a better life here, but do not discount what is still happening. In business, the old boys club still rules and if you think otherwise, you are sadly mistaken. Especially in certain fields, it still runs rampant.


Yep.

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 11:05:49 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		It does not run rampant...This is simply an overstatement. There are far too many lawyers just waiting to financially crush and take on all offenders. Corporate takes these allegations incredibly seriously. You make insensitive comments you can expect a harsh admonishment or possible termination.

I would like to pat the op on the head for bringing such an interesting topic to light....The sexy petite thing shouldn't have to worry her pretty little head over such matters.... Here's a few bucks why don't you go to town and get yourself something pretty to wear.

If you are still experiencing sexual harassment in todays climate it is you and your lack of action to blame.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 7/6/2010 11:06:36 AM >

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 11:11:16 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

It does not run rampant...This is simply an overstatement. There are far too many lawyers just waiting to financially crush and take on all offenders. Corporate takes these allegations incredibly seriously. You make insensitive comments you can expect a harsh admonishment or possible termination.


Many people do not work for corporations.... in fact small employers still employ most women... and there is less protection in that scenario from men that want to exercise power to hire and fire based upon who will suck their dick.




_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 297
RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 11:12:44 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Not sure what corporate world you are coming from, but here in NYC it does in fact, run rampant. I have seen many overly qualified, higher performing women not attain the same levels as underqualified men simply because they were not part of the "club".

This has nothing to do with sexual harassment; it is far more subtle. So taking action is a bit more difficult to prove.

So not an understatement; it is a fact.

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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 11:16:20 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

It does not run rampant...This is simply an overstatement. There are far too many lawyers just waiting to financially crush and take on all offenders. Corporate takes these allegations incredibly seriously. You make insensitive comments you can expect a harsh admonishment or possible termination.


Many people do not work for corporations.... in fact small employers still employ most women... and there is less protection in that scenario from men that want to exercise power to hire and fire based upon who will suck their dick.





one lawsuit is all it takes....Hidden tape recorder and you own the business.



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RE: Feminism and submission - 7/6/2010 11:25:54 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

one lawsuit is all it takes....Hidden tape recorder and you own the business.


First incident, the guy wanted me to swim naked in his hot tub after work... the offer came only once... I didn't do it, but the cocktail server who did got all the great shifts...

Second instance, my married boss saw me shooting pool with a few friends at a local pub, insisted on driving me home, and then tried to put the moves on me... I did not go for it, my shifts got cut down to 2 a week

Third instance, I was bartending at the local country club golf resort. My manager flirted with several of us, but the one that went for it got all the perks of being the one that was banging the guy that makes the schedule....

Sexual harassment is not always so obvious, nor is it repeated to where one can tape it. Are women supposed to tape every conversation just in case the boss offers them perks for sex? Is it acceptable to give the girl that is blowing you better shifts, meaning they get the good wages? Those who turn you down get punished?

That is the epitome of the damage of sexual harassment.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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