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Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 11:37:45 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		My son went to a military vehicle fair over the weekend. Had a great time by all accounts, lots of vehicles, tanks and battle reenactors. Brilliant for a 15 year old lad.

He brought back lots of photos. Including one that was very disturbing.

There he was in a borrowed combat jacket and a NATO style helmet, on his own with a vehicle painted in desert colours behind him.

Exactly like one of the pictures that come up on the news every night these days when, the family having been informed, the name of the latest young person killed in action is announced.

Pause for thought for sure. Even more so when the newsreader turns gravely to the camera and you just know whats coming next of course. But seeing your own son in that scenario? It really brings  home any part of the tragedy that you might have been missing to that point.

E 

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 11:42:01 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		oh, that saying, young and dumb and full of cum is apt.

unfortunately folks are gotten at an age where (as we yanks have it) they have star spangled eyes...........rent some of those gory hamburger hill movies and platoon movies where there are no winners to counter balance the effect of the bands and the uniforms

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 11:54:53 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

oh, that saying, young and dumb and full of cum is apt.

unfortunately folks are gotten at an age where (as we yanks have it) they have star spangled eyes...........rent some of those gory hamburger hill movies and platoon movies where there are no winners to counter balance the effect of the bands and the uniforms


Ron, there's the "upside" to it too, I never got laid as much in my life as when I was wearing a uniform.
Uniforms are just "chick magnets."

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 12:58:17 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I will give you something else that will give you pause for thought...

In the western world, the military is usually the only way out of a bad situation.  Grow up in poverty, join the military for a chance at something better...

There are plenty of 3rd world people that join the US military just for the chance at American Citizenship.


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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 1:19:37 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Ron, there's the "upside" to it too, I never got laid as much in my life as when I was wearing a uniform.
Uniforms are just "chick magnets."

It's not fair to interrupt the postal service to engage in meaningless sex with desperate housewives Pat.


+in

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 7/5/2010 1:21:10 PM >

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 1:37:01 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		LOL.   Chick magnets.  LOL

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 1:45:22 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

oh, that saying, young and dumb and full of cum is apt.

unfortunately folks are gotten at an age where (as we yanks have it) they have star spangled eyes...........rent some of those gory hamburger hill movies and platoon movies where there are no winners to counter balance the effect of the bands and the uniforms


Ron, there's the "upside" to it too, I never got laid as much in my life as when I was wearing a uniform.
Uniforms are just "chick magnets."



"Chicks" love a bad boy.


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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 2:00:28 PM   
vincentML


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Status: offline 		And isn't that a side bar to our school team sports - to train young men to bond and to die for your mate and country. What do you suppose it would be like if there were no war, especially none of the needless kind we have been engaged in these past fifty years?



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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 2:08:38 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I will give you something else that will give you pause for thought...

In the western world, the military is usually the only way out of a bad situation.  Grow up in poverty, join the military for a chance at something better...

There are plenty of 3rd world people that join the US military just for the chance at American Citizenship.



Isn't that true in any nation? And what does that say about us as a people that one of the avenues to success is to risk your life in war if you are poor, but not necessary if you are wealthy? Recall the Vietnam War draft exemptions? If you were in University or if you were a teacher in public school you had exempt status. Wasn't Vietnam called a "black man's war?" Or look at the American Civil War where bounties were offered for replacements. Not much to be proud of in either case, I think. War remains a poor man's fate and a rich man's road to greater riches.

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 2:24:15 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Why did you let him go...he is only 15...but besides that there is nothing wrong with the desire to defend YOU and your way of life. Rather then him however it is us that must NOW make it so he will not need to put on that uniform. There is a war like it or not... sticking our heads in the sand will not stop it and blaming the likes of Bush will not either.

If we had fought it with conviction 8 years ago it would not still be going on... We must either fight or give up... One way preserves our way of life and the other destroys it... which will it be for you?

You are correct to say our present course is not working I’ll not defend it…but you and I must then think up new ways to end this conflict or your son and my grandson will still be fighting this war 15 years from now…if they survive.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/5/2010 2:25:44 PM >

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 2:29:40 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Status: offline 		I get tired of this position that we must fight to prevent future fights, you find in doing so we haven't actually prevented anything?

Do people really think western civilisation is going to end due to any terrorist act? When did we start believing this? It makes no sense but we can't say this because it's like saying they died for nothing and no we can't do that because it's unthinkable.


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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 2:36:20 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yes I do understand your thinking... but history does not agree with you...Time and time again tyrants were seen and action not taken and millions died. Wars are not skirmishes that may kill a few thousands anymore. Now war could destroy our civilization...but I forgot some think I am exaggerating.

I don’t want to leave the killing and dieing to my children and grandchildren if I can help it.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 2:50:08 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Time and time again a war to end all wars occurs, it seems we are destined to think fighting is the answer for all eternity.

So it will never end we can't pretend that fighting now prevents fighting in the future this is not the case and shouldn't be sold as such.

I don't know anyone that has the will to fight until they are the victim of such fighting. To have the will to kill a human being takes a special kind of pain or perhaps just a special type of ignorance. It's alien to me this idea: "Oh I'm going to kill some people to protect my way of life." What goes through the mind of someone that has concluded that is the first option? It's a pretty extreme standpoint to arrive at so quickly. It would take a lifetime to reasonably conclude that is the best option, how is anyone convinced of this before the age of twenty?


< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 7/5/2010 2:57:55 PM >

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 2:56:18 PM   
Rule


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quote:

The number of British military personnel killed on operations in Afghanistan since 2001 stands at 311 after a soldier from The Royal Dragoon Guards was killed by an explosion ...

Of all those killed, 38 have died from accidents, illness, or non-combat injuries.


From wikipedia:
quote:

The regular British Army had a strength of 150,240 active personnel in 2009 (114,240 regulars and 35,500 Territorial Army).


I calculate that there is a combat related death toll of 0.18 per cent. I do not know whether that is a high risk. I suppose it will be higher for those sent to a war zone.

On the other hand there are compensations: adventure, food and usually guaranteed pay and perchance some kind of education.

The question is whether someone has what it takes to be a soldier.

There is always risk.

Wars do benefit the populations.

< Message edited by Rule -- 7/5/2010 3:00:07 PM >

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 4:40:05 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

I calculate that there is a combat related death toll of 0.18 per cent. I do not know whether that is a high risk. I suppose it will be higher for those sent to a war zone.


Really, Rule? You think it riskier in a war zone?

quote:

On the other hand there are compensations: adventure, food and usually guaranteed pay and perchance some kind of education.


Ah, join the navy, see the world. And don't forget the rather functional artificial limbs now available and the excellent psychiatric care for those nights you awake screaming and in cold sweat replaying the vision of your mate's head blowing off. What a loverly thing is War!!

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 4:51:12 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Really, Rule? You think it riskier in a war zone?

Indeed, I suspect it might be - but I cannot prove that. On the other hand, if I recall correctly, but I may not, far more people died in the USA from motor vehicle accidents than in combat in Vietnam during the same time. If so, then it might be argued that not being in a war zone might be riskier.

In any case, being married is very risky for a woman, I read on scientology.org: nearly half of all assault cases are directed against such by their significant others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Ah, join the navy, see the world. And don't forget the rather functional artificial limbs now available and the excellent psychiatric care for those nights you awake screaming and in cold sweat replaying the vision of your mate's head blowing off. What a loverly thing is War!!


You ignored this my remark: The question is whether someone has what it takes to be a soldier.

quote:

Nor have I ever advocated that war is a lovely thing. Please do not put words that I have not said into my mouth.


< Message edited by Rule -- 7/5/2010 5:03:30 PM >

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 4:56:51 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

The number of British military personnel killed on operations in Afghanistan since 2001 stands at 311 after a soldier from The Royal Dragoon Guards was killed by an explosion ...

Of all those killed, 38 have died from accidents, illness, or non-combat injuries.


From wikipedia:
quote:

The regular British Army had a strength of 150,240 active personnel in 2009 (114,240 regulars and 35,500 Territorial Army).


I calculate that there is a combat related death toll of 0.18 per cent. I do not know whether that is a high risk. I suppose it will be higher for those sent to a war zone.

If you are using those figures to calculate that percentage all it proves is that you are innumerate as I don't know how (311-38)*100/311= 0.18??? I don't know what a pie chart representation of this would look like or what you think the other 99.82% die from?

If you are using some other figures or your infinite super genius then I don't understand why mention the non combat related figure or the total?

I see what you've done now but it's a nonsense approach as you have to consider that out of the total serving not all are going to be serving all of their life. It's not like quality control where you assume the number of defects is proportional to the number of units produced, the number of military deaths is not related to the total number of personnel because the conditions of risk are not uniformly distributed to each individual each has a unique role, some are not even front line workers. You may just be the unlucky person serving on an ill conceived mission or with a hapless leader.

A far better approach in my view would be to carry out your calculation based on number of people on each patrol and how many of those get killed each time. Then if you happen to be on such a patrol you know on average how many die each time. Sadly this approach is not used because it's less palatable. Than comparing the total killed to the number of serving regardless of where in the world they are.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 7/5/2010 5:30:29 PM >

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 5:00:15 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Rule, How the hell war benefits the population I will never know.

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 5:05:52 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Rule, How the hell war benefits the population I will never know.

That is quite alright, Ps53. There are lots of things that I do not know either.

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RE: Pause for thought - 7/5/2010 5:16:54 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Rule, How the hell war benefits the population I will never know.

That is quite alright, Ps53. There are lots of things that I do not know either.


I thought you would enlighten me as to the benefit of being dead, or having your legs blown off. The former seems to hold none, while at least the later would save you a few quid in shoes and socks.

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