What happens when you can never be enough?

What happens when you can never be enough? (Full Version)

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puella -> What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 11:59:01 AM)
I have been reading some of the threads here and there are many, wonderful discussions going on about how you can improve your service, questions asking both fellow submissives and Dominants alike about what they like to do or have done to them to display devotion, service and owning, how to be a better submissive, how to delve deeper etc. That made me wonder about a sort of 'opposite' (or perhaps even peril) of such devotion. Can there be a point where you can, and perhaps must recognize that no matter how much you try, how much you give, or even how much you give up, that you, the person, the submissive, are not enough for the dominant you ache to serve? If so, what takes you to that realization, and what on earth do you do if you have that realization? (Obviously I am not trying to state that this is an inevitability in every D/s, M/s relationship, but rather what happens if that does surface.) I look forward to an interesting discourse!

Lordandmaster -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 12:12:48 PM)
The "enough?" mentality is pernicious and can lead to serious problems. I assume the motivation for thinking in this self-destructive way is the nagging fear that someone else will step in and take the sub's place. Am I enough? Will I ever be enough? Normally when someone talks like that, what she's really thinking is: Will he be fucking other women too? Don't worry about whether you are "enough" for your dom or master. Just worry about whether you are pleasing him or her. You can never do more than that. Do your best. If it's not "enough," he'll release you; if it is "enough," he'll keep you.

NakedGirlScout -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 12:22:31 PM)
"Not good enough" really just means "not right for each other" with a dollop of self-defeat on top. I always feel there is more I could do to be better, but feeling generally not good enough is a sign to stop and re-evaluate where that feeling is coming from and ask for help from my dom. If the whole relationship makes me not feel good enough over a long period of time, it is definitely time to go. Too bad that by that time you might feel "not good enough" for anyone else, either.

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 12:23:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: puella That made me wonder about a sort of 'opposite' (or perhaps even peril) of such devotion. Can there be a point where you can, and perhaps must recognize that no matter how much you try, how much you give, or even how much you give up, that you, the person, the submissive, are not enough for the dominant you ache to serve? As in any relationship sometimes love is not enough to hold a relationship together. D/s relationships are prone to the same pressures as any other. I was with a lovely man for almost 2 years but he was only interested in light D/s and he felt it was not enough for me. In many ways we were perfect for each other, but he could not understand the depth of my need for this lifestyle. We had to be honest and move on. Thank goodness we were able to salvage a deep loving friendship out of it. You have to measure all factors in a relationship and decide whether it can survive or not based on many factors. Cin

puella -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 12:23:42 PM)
Thanks for the reply. Actually I was not speaking of myself, I am not owned. But you did bring up some interesting points! I think being enough has much more to it than the sexual aspect, but that might well be a part of it. Perhaps I was not clear in wording what I was thinking of. There are times and circumstances where one person may not be enough (emotionally, intellectually, sexually, etc) for another person. That chasm, I am sure, can cause huge problems to develop in the relationship, whether some amount of pleasure is brought to the Dom or not. Or, perhaps I am wrong? It would just seem to me that if one in the relationship is in a constant state of full throttle 'attempt to be pleasing' mode and only cursorily being pleasing.. there is something wrong going on. Because sure that effort should be worth more than an amusement, and surely as well, the one being offered that should be allowed to expect more? Perhaps that situation doesn't arise, I can not say.. I was just pondering what a sticky situation it would be were it to come up.

CanadianGuy -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 12:24:11 PM)
I had never considered this possibility, frankly. I think it's possible to happen, but likely more often for submissives, since they are more often the ones concerned with serving, being useful, improving their technique and devotion, etc. Not that I don't strive to do well, and in fact I'm a perfectionist, but I don't think I'll ever be at the point where I'm going to freak out that I'm not "just right". Indeed, you mentioned in your post that you'd be more concerned about submissives having this issue about pleasing their dominants. I think people should take the information and discussions here as helpful tips, not a checklist of things to succeed at before you're "good enough".

KatyLied -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 1:00:44 PM)
That "not enough" statement sends warning bells blaring. You should make an effort to be the best you can be in the relationship. If that's not enough then perhaps you are serving the wrong person.

Level -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 1:21:54 PM)
I see how it could happen. Katy is right on about the submissive serving the wrong person. If you are not into pain, and your dominant is a sadist, how can you serve him "enough"? You may very well try with all your might, but if it isn't there, it isn't there. Best to move on and try to make the best of it, as Cin said. Find one that fits you. Level, who just had an incredible massage and is sliding out of my chair LOL.

JoeBlack -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 1:27:15 PM)
A good Dom is smart enough,and experienced enough to strike a balance;if the sub communicates her thoughts and feelings effectively...

RiotGirl -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 1:30:17 PM)
That is why you dont self improve for others, but for yourself. i do it, cos it pleases ME to please him and him to enjoy it.. Self centered? Maybe. Honestly, i pretty much keep all my works of self improvement on the down low, i dont really involve him, or speak to him, or communicate it with him. On the off chance it does happen. Cos its not for him. LOL Course i suppose it is in a round about way? But its not! As it pleases ME. Makes me happy darn it. Like getting on the bi polar meds.. i could of done it cos : oh my god, i know this behavior is horrible and isnt pleasing, oh my god - what if he leaves me, dislikes me, looks for things else where.. and no matter what i'll do i'll always act like this. i'll never be sane enough for him.. i'll never be good enough, never like everyone else. yeah no. Could, but didnt. i thought damn this has really got to stop. i'm sure it really sucks for him to have to deal with this, crap even i'm tired of it.. okay possible solution... i'm pretty much content with the outcome as well... it makes me soooooooooo happy - cos i know how much its got to suck dealing with it. And i dont want him having to deal with that. Even knowing - its how i was when he met me. He liked me fine then. And yeah, i will probably never be like other ppl. i will never be good as them, or good enough when it comes to controlling my emotions. Ayep never. i will always be me Like i said, its all about the way you view it. i dont try and improve myself for him.. because i will never achieve perfection. i will never be better then everyone else either. No matter how hard i try, i am going to fail if that is my goal. What i want, i just want to be better. Sadly though.. and totally retarded. If i were not with him, half the things i wouldnt care about. i'm like eh.. but with him, i do do them for me, yet for him in a round about way. Like exercising.. tanning.. improving me There are things that i know i am not at his level at. Like sadism. His sadism is wicked and i'm barely moderate. i know he would love to have an absolute pain slut that could really take and enjoy his wickedness. And you could say i'm not good enough if you choose. i dont tho. i know when i push myself it pleases him and i know he doesnt expect me to take an extreme maochist out my butt for him. i'm content with pushing myself or letting him push me. Heck, i didnt even know i was a masochist when i met him and he was quite content with that. Eventually, one day, i will reach for that extreme masochist (when i am ready), just so i can be all proud and please i was able to give it to him. Granted he'd most likely be pleased (which would please me) but even if he wasnt please.. screw him (lolz).. okay i lie, i'd be crestfallen if he wasnt. heh! i just dont think anyone anywhere will ever be pleasing enough.. you strive for what you are capable of. Och aye, and you can NEVER be enough. Thats right folks, attain perfection! i say this only, because you can always improve. As for being pleasing enough for some one else.. i'm definetly sure <snickers> its out there for me. And they can pass me by because i will always, no matter how i improve, be me.

Tikkiee -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 1:38:19 PM)
It took Chris and I two months to realize that a D/s relationship would not work between us. I am just too strong-willed and independent. That was 4 years ago. We are still together . Never once though did I ever think that I was not 'good enough' to make it work. Some things clicked, some things did not. We compromised and worked instead on strengthening the things that did.

Real0ne -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 1:55:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: puella Thanks for the reply. Actually I was not speaking of myself, I am not owned. But you did bring up some interesting points! I think being enough has much more to it than the sexual aspect, but that might well be a part of it. Perhaps I was not clear in wording what I was thinking of. There are times and circumstances where one person may not be enough (emotionally, intellectually, sexually, etc) for another person. That chasm, I am sure, can cause huge problems to develop in the relationship, whether some amount of pleasure is brought to the Dom or not. Or, perhaps I am wrong? It would just seem to me that if one in the relationship is in a constant state of full throttle 'attempt to be pleasing' mode and only cursorily being pleasing.. there is something wrong going on. Because sure that effort should be worth more than an amusement, and surely as well, the one being offered that should be allowed to expect more? Perhaps that situation doesn't arise, I can not say.. I was just pondering what a sticky situation it would be were it to come up. It happens all the time and many breakups sadly wind up over not having some kink satisfied rather than how well matched people are on a human level. It also happens all the times where subs are so caught up in the pleasing bit that they lose overything they have to an unscrupulous dom(me). Oh yeh great point, always understand the difference between legitimate and illegitimate "enough".

Arpig -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 1:57:20 PM)
Try harder? Actually I don't think any one person can ever be "enough", no matter how much a person fulfills another, there will be things that person cannot give them, that is why we have friends, those are people who give us other things...shared memories, somebody to talk motorcycles with, whatever.....unless one's significant other is an exact reflection, then one will have interests they do not share or comprehend, and that is just the way of life.

Proprietrix -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 2:36:56 PM)
I've had this situation happen. As a Dominant, it comes to me in the form of "You want a deeper level of submission than I can offer." or "You want a commitment I can't make." or "You want me to make sacrifices I'm not willing to make." At that point, I see it as very simple options. Do you ever want to offer that level of submission (make that commitment, make those sacrifices)?? If the answer is "No, I don't want to." then there's really nothing further to discuss. We can either take it down to just being friends, or we can go our seperate ways. If the answer is "Yes, I want to." then, as a Dominant, I feel it is my responsibility to teach. Here is how you can offer deeper submission. Here is a stepping stone on the way to making a commitment. Here is the path you take in making sacrifices. Here is the goal. Here is the way to get to that goal. But then it becomes the submissive's responsibility to walk that path toward that goal. Show me that you're hearing what I'm teaching. Show me that you're moving forward instead of becoming stagnant. Ask me for help. When you fall, pick yourself up. If you can't, ask for my hand. When you're lost, ask me for direction. Then go in the direction I point. Keep focused on the goal. Keep positive along the way. Frequently check your progress to see how far you've come. But the minute you lay down and expect me to do it for you, that's the same as going back to square one and saying "No, I don't want to."

ownedgirlie -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 2:40:03 PM)
Great post, and reflects my understanding of the topic as well.

Level -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 3:34:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Proprietrix I've had this situation happen. As a Dominant, it comes to me in the form of "You want a deeper level of submission than I can offer." or "You want a commitment I can't make." or "You want me to make sacrifices I'm not willing to make." At that point, I see it as very simple options. Do you ever want to offer that level of submission (make that commitment, make those sacrifices)?? If the answer is "No, I don't want to." then there's really nothing further to discuss. We can either take it down to just being friends, or we can go our seperate ways. If the answer is "Yes, I want to." then, as a Dominant, I feel it is my responsibility to teach. Here is how you can offer deeper submission. Here is a stepping stone on the way to making a commitment. Here is the path you take in making sacrifices. Here is the goal. Here is the way to get to that goal. But then it becomes the submissive's responsibility to walk that path toward that goal. Show me that you're hearing what I'm teaching. Show me that you're moving forward instead of becoming stagnant. Ask me for help. When you fall, pick yourself up. If you can't, ask for my hand. When you're lost, ask me for direction. Then go in the direction I point. Keep focused on the goal. Keep positive along the way. Frequently check your progress to see how far you've come. But the minute you lay down and expect me to do it for you, that's the same as going back to square one and saying "No, I don't want to." *Excellent post. And I loved your profile as well..... laughs about the toaster....* Level

KnightofMists -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 4:16:21 PM)
quote: That made me wonder about a sort of 'opposite' (or perhaps even peril) of such devotion. Can there be a point where you can, and perhaps must recognize that no matter how much you try, how much you give, or even how much you give up, that you, the person, the submissive, are not enough for the dominant you ache to serve? If so, what takes you to that realization, and what on earth do you do if you have that realization? (Obviously I am not trying to state that this is an inevitability in every D/s, M/s relationship, but rather what happens if that does surface.) A couple questions.. Am I enough for him? One needs to be careful on exactly what they are asking them self. In this first question a person is asking for an answer that only one person can answer and that is "HIM". Both alandra and kyra can not answer if they are enough for me. They can not determine for me what is going to bring happiness for myself. I find if a person is attempting to answer this type of question they are on a very destructive path of negative thinking. I choose to have alandra and kyra in my life... I choose for a lot of different reasons.... I choose because I felt they are right for me... that they are Good Enough! So asking this type of question is rooted in one’s own fears and insecurities and actually undermines the devotion and love they have for the person they are committed to. I think it is important to consider not if one is good enough but to actually consider the second question. Are he and this relationship enough for ME? We all must answer this question! Only we can answer this question for ourselves. We can seek opinions from others. Others can share their opinions and give advice. But, at the end of the day... Only we can determine if another is good enough for us and if the relationship is right for us. I think finding out if it is right is found at a very basic level.... AM I HAPPY! In truth with alandra and kyra I am overwhelmed with happiness and inspired with hope to our future

enthralled -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 4:24:58 PM)
Interesting. . . I've never thought about being enough for someone; instead, I'm afraid of someone wanting me to be thier EVERYTHING. I don't know that there's anyone anywhere that could live up to that kind of responsibility. . . seem's it would be selfdestructive to think I ever could. Respectfully, enthralled

puella -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 4:29:55 PM)
Well... enough and everything are two very different concepts... I think maybe my question lead people to think I meant being some sort of super human, some sort of perfection, when that is not what I meant at all. Again.. being enough is a very subtle differentiation of color, is much more what I was trying (perhaps not so successfully) to get at in this question. I will always maintain that the only perfection we can really ever hope to achieve as individuals is the perfection of intention. Anything else, I will agree, is an exercise in both futility and more likely than not, self destruction.

enthralled -> RE: What happens when you can never be enough? (4/15/2006 4:44:17 PM)
quote: Well... enough and everything are two very different concepts... I think maybe my question lead people to think I meant being some sort of super human, some sort of perfection, when that is not what I meant at all. No, you were clear. From reading the posts here, I believe that people were mainly responding to : quote: Can there be a point where you can, and perhaps must recognize that no matter how much you try, how much you give, or even how much you give up, that you, the person, the submissive, are not enough for the dominant you ache to serve? I may be wrong, but I think that what the general concensus (and forgive me E/everyone if I'm wrong) is that it should never get to the point above to begin with. By then, you'd be questioning who/what you are, your sense of 'self' and the damage would be done. Respectfully, enthralled

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