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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 1:47:11 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

I would say defend itself from what exactly? The only real threat to European nations since the mongols has been other European nations. I'm not sure I get the rest of your question either....NATO is europe + the US&Canada.

fast answer:watching footie :)



From the wiki article on NATO:

quote:

The first NATO Secretary General, Lord Ismay, famously stated the organization's goal was "to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down"


The USSR has gone away as a threat. NATO is an army in search of a mission. How to justify its continued existence?

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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 1:49:04 PM   
Sanity


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A bold gamble that paid off, which Clinton was among those who enjoyed the fruits of the resulting peace dividends that came after the end of the cold war. The entire planet benefited from Reagan ending the cold war, really.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And all he had to do was first quadruple the national debt, crash the stock market, bail out the Savings & Loan scandal and leave Bush I with double digit unemployment.

Yeah. Great economic strategy.


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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 1:51:23 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		I hope someone explains that to them.

A lot of planet dwellers don't see things so rosy.

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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 1:54:06 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		Well afghanistan mainly atm :p

I reckon NATO is (part of) the reason the sudan situation isn't as common as it used to be.
At it's heart NATO is just a simple treaty of 'if anyone attacks you they'll have to fight all of us'. Less a case of justify its existence, more....why not?

Better for Europe to stick in a close alliance than the historical alternative.

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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:06:54 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Shouldn't you have mentioned she is an evil conservative bitch who just says things to get people riled up and make money, Vince?

Plus, she has an Adam's Apple, so we all know she's really a man, anyway.


I thought I was pretty clear that I agreed with her, Rich. What made you think otherwise?

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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:07:10 PM   
Sanity


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I know you won't disagree that the cold war involved most of the planet. So don't you think it follows that most of the planet therefore benefited from its ending?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I hope someone explains that to them.

A lot of planet dwellers don't see things so rosy.


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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:08:50 PM   
Musicmystery


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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:11:03 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Well afghanistan mainly atm :p

I reckon NATO is (part of) the reason the sudan situation isn't as common as it used to be.
At it's heart NATO is just a simple treaty of 'if anyone attacks you they'll have to fight all of us'. Less a case of justify its existence, more....why not?

Better for Europe to stick in a close alliance than the historical alternative.



I thought that was the purpose of the EU ... an alliance, hugging each other close.

And wasn't it Alliances that plunged Europe into the Great War 1914?

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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:12:09 PM   
Sanity


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You're going to try to blame all the worlds current problems on Reagan?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Have you taken a look at the conditions around the globe?


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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:14:48 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

I know you won't disagree that the cold war involved most of the planet. So don't you think it follows that most of the planet therefore benefited from its ending?


Or maybe the end of the cold war was the breakdown of an old order and the prelude to a new one (no conspiracies intended here) and the current time an interegnum of lawlessness and confusion.

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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:19:17 PM   
Sanity


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These could be some really good times worldwide if Europeans had the balls to help keep order ala Ronald Reagans peace through strength template. Hell, if the UN were anything like the organization it was meant to be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

I know you won't disagree that the cold war involved most of the planet. So don't you think it follows that most of the planet therefore benefited from its ending?


Or maybe the end of the cold war was the breakdown of an old order and the prelude to a new one (no conspiracies intended here) and the current time an interegnum of lawlessness and confusion.


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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:21:53 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		The EU came later, a trade thing....that's evolving possibly into a federal europe for the Eurozone.

And...not really. The great war was much bigger because advances in technology had suddenly made available much larger populations and much faster ways of decimating said....it wasn't anything new, Constant big wars, constant alliances....there was no peaceful period of european history pre-WW2. Just before 1 there'd been the dividing of the ottoman empire. Before that Italy, before that Poland, before that Napoleon. etc.

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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:23:48 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You're going to try to blame all the worlds current problems on Reagan?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Have you taken a look at the conditions around the globe?



Sigh.

No wonder you argue so much. You invent dischord where none exists.

You are arguing the benefits of the cold war's end for the entire world. I'm noting much of the world isn't in such good shape and am asking for clarification/explanation if you have one.

When I have a specific claim to make, I'll make it. Perhaps you've noticed--I'm not shy about that.

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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:41:27 PM   
Sanity


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You're trying to claim that just because I said the world benefited that should mean its now a perfect utopia, which is nonsense.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


Sigh.

No wonder you argue so much. You invent dischord where none exists.

You are arguing the benefits of the cold war's end for the entire world. I'm noting much of the world isn't in such good shape and am asking for clarification/explanation if you have one.

When I have a specific claim to make, I'll make it. Perhaps you've noticed--I'm not shy about that.


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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:45:07 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Shouldn't you have mentioned she is an evil conservative bitch who just says things to get people riled up and make money, Vince?

Plus, she has an Adam's Apple, so we all know she's really a man, anyway.



Heretic, I think Miss Ann is entertaining. And, because people like "Rulemylife", "slavemike", "Owner 59", and others in here get really angry and bullshit anytime someone brings her name up! lol See? "Entertaining!"
What do you think, I bet secretly, deep down inside "Rulemylife" would love to be under Ann's control for a day or so!
"O.k. mr rulemylife, how's about an evening of bondage and FOX T.V.!!!"
"Oh look, Bill O'Reilly's on next!"
"MFFTVFGGTTTT!!!!!!!
Yep,Pops its sort of like when someone mentions "immigrant" anywhere within your earshot......entertainment ensues!

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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:46:14 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		In case some of you might have missed some of the wonderful things that happened after the collapse of the Soviet Union, let me give you one example, there was this thing in the Balkans, remember the collapse and wars in what was called Yugoslavia?

Or perhaps the wonderful turmoil in some of the former soviet republics, or did you forget the little problem dealing with ethnic Armenians in some of the former republics around the Republic of Armenia...

Or the war in Georgia?

The collapse of the Soviet Union led to a lot of civil and political unrest in several of the former republics.


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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:49:29 PM   
Sanity


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You seem to be arguing like you might think its best if one strong and utterly ruthless dictatorial nation such as the USSR was could rule the world with its iron fist.

Thats madness.






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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:49:45 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I know you won't disagree that the cold war involved most of the planet. So don't you think it follows that most of the planet therefore benefited from its ending?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I hope someone explains that to them.

A lot of planet dwellers don't see things so rosy.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here....am I allowed to state that the Cold War ending was a good thing.....while disagreeing with you that Saint Ronnie was the sole cause for that coming to pass?


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:49:59 PM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		If youre saying that the world benefitted then you must acknowledge that the actions of your country contributed to enormous suffering on a global scale in its backing of vicious dictators and funding of war by proxy, that was not merely inherent in its pursuit of the cold war but the main means of that course of action.

This is problematic in itself, making the US culpable for what amount to crimes comparable with those tried at Nuernberg.

E

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RE: A Nation of Perpetual War? - 7/11/2010 2:54:22 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You're going to try to blame all the worlds current problems on Reagan?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Have you taken a look at the conditions around the globe?

Too fucking funny....you take a childish stance in ascribing all sorts of wonderous outcomes at his feet......than turn around and accuse someone else of trying to"blame all the worlds current problems on Reagan".
Grow up Sanity ,remove the Charlie Brown shirt, and try to understand that the world is much more complex and interdependant than your childish outlook allows for.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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