De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message

pahunkboy -> De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 4:25:42 PM)

De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Event
see how history repeats itself?




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 4:28:46 PM)

Which corpse shall we dig up to hang from the rafters first?



Politesub53 -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 4:41:53 PM)

They didnt even find the WMD`s Uncle Ho was hiding did they. [8|]



jlf1961 -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 4:55:10 PM)

Pahunk, are you referring to the first incident, which the North Vietnamese Navy confirmed the engagement or the second incident on August 4, which seemed to be the destroyer was engaging radar ghosts?

It was the second incident which led to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

If you are referring to the August 4 incident, I hate to burst your bubble, but the actual facts that the ship was firing on radar ghosts is and has been well known.

The only North Vietnamese Navy activity on August 4 was the salvage of two patrol boats damaged on August 2 in the first incident.

A little background on the August 2 incident, the North Vietnamese Navy sent four patrol torpedo boats to engage the USS Maddox which was on a DESOTO patrol.  The North Vietnamese claim was that the Maddox had violated territorial waters.

The engagement took place during the day and aside from the Maddox also involved four US Navy F8 Crusader aircraft, one of which was damaged by North Vietnamese gunfire.

The incident, as I said was confirmed by the North Vietnamese government.

Now as far as the details of the August 4th incident, I give you this information, which kind of blows your prisonplanet article out of the water, which should be no surprise to you.

quote:

In 2005, an internal National Security Agency historical study was declassified; it concluded that the Maddox had engaged the North Vietnamese Navy on August 2, but that there may not have been any North Vietnamese Naval vessels present during the engagement of August 4. The report stated
[I]t is not simply that there is a different story as to what happened; it is that no attack happened that night. [...] In truth, Hanoi's navy was engaged in nothing that night but the salvage of two of the boats damaged on August 2.


If you ever quoted accurate facts, I would probably fall out of my chair, but since you refuse to actually do your own research, I really have nothing to worry about.

This is an old accusation against the Johnson administration, has been repeatedly proven false, and it keeps coming up.



pahunkboy -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 5:00:46 PM)

So according to you Vietnam was not a mistake?



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 5:02:16 PM)

Don't you tell me about NAM you weren't there man, you know nothing about NAM!

I think if there was a legitimate point to that war we'd all have known what it was by now.



pahunkboy -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 5:04:17 PM)

Nope.  I am too young. 



jlf1961 -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 5:13:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

So according to you Vietnam was not a mistake?


I did not say that you idiot, I said that the incident that led to the gulf of tonkin resolution was one in which the US Navy ship in question, the USS Maddox actually targeted and fired at RADAR ghosts.  In other words, the ship was firing on something that was not really there.

Learn to fucking read, and do your own fucking research.



Elisabella -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 5:14:29 PM)

Wait, you mean to tell me there was a war in Vietnam?

Dude I don't even know where Vietnam is. Who's covering this shit up and why?



pahunkboy -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 5:17:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

So according to you Vietnam was not a mistake?


I did not say that you idiot, I said that the incident that led to the gulf of tonkin resolution was one in which the US Navy ship in question, the USS Maddox actually targeted and fired at RADAR ghosts.  In other words, the ship was firing on something that was not really there.

Learn to fucking read, and do your own fucking research.




newly declassified documents.

dont you think this is noteworthy?



jlf1961 -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 5:31:45 PM)

I hate to be the one to break this to you, hunky, but considering you dont seem to have enough common sense to come in out of a hail storm, I will.

"De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators"  indicates that these are senatorial transcripts from either the senate floor or a committee meeting, and since either of those forms of transcripts are available to the public as a matter of record, it stands to reason they could not be declassified, since they were never classified in the first place.

As I have advised you to do in the past, use the Freedom of Information act procedure to request any and all documents related to the Gulf of Tonkin and do your own research.

It was pretty much understood that since the North Vietnamese Navy did not confirm any military action on August 4th, and there was no evidence of actual combat since the USS Maddox did not receive any return fire from the "targets," all indications were that the ship had not actually been firing at or engaged with any vessel.

The North Vietnamese government was pretty clear about making or denying claims of seaborne combat in the region.  It was therefore accepted by the majority of military commanders and even testified to in congress by 1965 that the Maddox had engaged enemy vessels on August 2, 1964 and actually been firing at false radar targets on August 4.

There is also the fact that, considering the imprecise navigation of the period, as compared to the present, that the Maddox might have actually strayed into North Vietnamese territorial waters, as claimed by North Vietnam. 

Either way, by the time all the information had come out, by 1965, we were already involved with military operations in South Vietnam, a clear escalation from the few military instructors and advisers previously assigned to South Vietnam.

In your case, a little research would have saved you from looking like a complete idiot willing to believe anything a conspiracy site is prepared to publish.

I would tell you to get a life, but that would probably require to much effort on your part.



slvemike4u -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 5:36:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Wait, you mean to tell me there was a war in Vietnam?

Dude I don't even know where Vietnam is. Who's covering this shit up and why?
See what happens when you home school ?[:D]



pahunkboy -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 5:39:58 PM)

http://www.opednews.com/Diary/U-S-Senators-Doubted-1964-by-Truth-Excavator-100715-621.html


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/world/asia/15vietnam.html?_r=4&emc=eta1

WASHINGTON — In an echo of the debates over the discredited intelligence that helped make the case for the war in Iraq, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday released more than 1,100 pages of previously classified Vietnam-era transcripts that show senators of the time sharply questioning whether they had been deceived by the White House and the Pentagon over the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident./snip


You were saying?



jlf1961 -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 6:49:37 PM)

Hunk, okay, so they were held in executive session, prior to committee meetings being held in public, so yes, those transcripts were sealed.

However, as I previously said, hearings and testimony in 1965 already put doubt on the incident on August 4, 1964 in which the USS Maddox engaged what was probably radar ghosts, since the North Vietnamese Government denied any involvement, while confirming the incident on August 2nd.

This denial in and of itself placed doubt on whether or not the Maddox engaged anything on the night of August 4.  By 1968, the senate and house had already heard the testimony concerning August 4, had the confirmation of the incident on August 2nd in which the Maddox had received fire from the North Vietnamese torpedo boats.

Now, it was the incident of the night of the 4th that led to the resolution.  Which has been in doubt since, I repeat, 1965.  Thus the declassified material only sheds light on the possibility that the Maddox did not even fire a weapon on the night of August 4.

In fact the Maddox did fire its weapons on the night of August 4th, but the question becomes "At what?"

The North Vietnamese navy was involved with salvage operations of the two damaged patrol boats from August 2nd, and were thus far out of range, so the Maddox did not fire at them, OR considering the fact that the radar technology of the period was showing false echos, or ghosts, and that is what the Maddox fired at.

As I previously pointed out, the NSA report released in 2005 indicates that the Maddox fired at radar ghosts.

Now, as I have said before, had you done any in depth research on your own, you would have already known that there were serious questions concerning the August 4th incident, that these questions had been raised in testimony to the senate in 1965, and evidently again in 1968.

Therefore, these declassified documents raise nothing new.

By the way, by the time Nixon took office, it was already widely accepted that the incident of  August 4th was pretty much an incident of "blind" shooting.  So it took 40 years for an official agency, namely the NSA to release the information.



servantforuse -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 7:00:57 PM)

Elisabella, You can't possibly be serious ?



pahunkboy -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 7:10:09 PM)

Therefore, these declassified documents raise nothing new./snip


then why are we chasing WMDs in Iraq and why is there no exit strategy?

if we resolved this- and it is not new- then the current war would not be 9 years drag.

Surely if it is not new- then we would not have on purpose entered into a war based on fake intel.

So the New York Times runs this "not new" story- this week.   hmm.



Termyn8or -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 7:24:29 PM)

"Elisabella, You can't possibly be serious ?"

Sure is. It was not a war, it was a police action remember ?

Of course the vets I knew who were there wondered just what kind of police action involved a mining operation.

And remember that wars are almost always over natural resources, and in case nobody grasps this, a strategical location is a natural resource.

And they certainly didn't like Diem for some reason.

T



slvemike4u -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 7:38:12 PM)

Fella's she was only kidding......term I don't care what the fuck "they" called it.....there is a black granite wall in Washington that is proof enough it was a war.There are some 58,000 names that stand as stark evidence if that fact.



vincentML -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 7:43:22 PM)

Ummm.... I think the "police action" was Korea. Check me on that, Termy. Wasn't korea a United Nations police action?



vincentML -> RE: De-classified Vietnam-era Transcripts Show Senators Knew Gulf Of Tonkin Was A Staged False Flag Even (7/15/2010 7:53:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Fella's she was only kidding......term I don't care what the fuck "they" called it.....there is a black granite wall in Washington that is proof enough it was a war.There are some 58,000 names that stand as stark evidence if that fact.


Sadly, deep down in the wiki article Johnson is quoted as saying:

In 1965, President Johnson commented privately: "For all I know, our Navy was shooting at whales out there."[28]

You would have to follow the footnote to verify.



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.03125