RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 8:12:07 PM)

quote:

And thats why accountants are not economists.

....

It is absolutely fucking impossible for any product/service/commodity to "bankrupt" the country.


I get it. We know. It's a figure of speech, as pointed out to you earlier.

The problem of spiraling costs remains, classroom chalkboard notwithstanding.

What it CAN do on your chalkboard is price health care out of the market for most people.

That's something we should avoid. Or at least a number of people, including me, would prefer we do.

Class dismissed.





willbeurdaddy -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 8:28:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

And thats why accountants are not economists.

....

It is absolutely fucking impossible for any product/service/commodity to "bankrupt" the country.


I get it. We know. It's a figure of speech, as pointed out to you earlier.

The problem of spiraling costs remains, classroom chalkboard notwithstanding.

What it CAN do on your chalkboard is price health care out of the market for most people.

That's something we should avoid. Or at least a number of people, including me, would prefer we do.

Class dismissed.




To you its a figure of speech. To the Obamabots and 1/2 this board, it was gospel.

It also couldnt price "most people" out of the care side of the market without artificial constraints on the number of docs . The R&D costs need a wide base to spread the investments over on the technology side.




Musicmystery -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 8:35:47 PM)

Which still leaves us with spiraling health care costs.

That's the point. Again.





Brain -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 8:36:20 PM)


Right, not one thing he said addresses it, EVERTHING he said addresses it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This is utter horseshit.

A few years back my company did some work with a software house out of Toronto. Our companies were about the same size and we liked working with each other so we started talking about joint ventures and/or a merger. We went over each others books and we had virtually identical expenses except we had our huge monthly premium for health insurance. They were able to underbid us by about 5% because their costs were that much less and that was entirely driven by our providing a fairly basic health insurance to our staff.

In a global market where people can acquire things like software from anywhere then our health care costs must come down or companies that compete internationally will continue feeling pressured to drop the coverage entirely.


Of course not one thing youve cited here in any way addresses what you claim is utter horseshit. Its basic economics, Kendoll, not surprised its beyond your ken though (pun intended)





chiaThePet -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 8:40:27 PM)


It would appear that most are holding their breath, hoping for the best.

But in the long term, if the only change you find is under the couch cushions,
there is always this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=201pgTaEseQ

chia* (the pet)




Musicmystery -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 8:53:54 PM)

Hoping for the best is what got us into the problem.




chiaThePet -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 9:01:46 PM)


Agreed.

And 2012 could possibly get us out.

chia* (the pet)




pahunkboy -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 9:01:58 PM)

free health care is better then sliced bread.


did you know during the depression- sliced bread was illegal.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 9:04:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet


Agreed.

And 2012 could possibly get us out.

chia* (the pet)



Start with 2010




willbeurdaddy -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 9:05:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

free health care is better then sliced bread.


did you know during the depression- sliced bread was illegal.



too bad there is no such thing as free health care. If there were, then youre right, it would be better than a lot of things. Worse than the health care we have now, of course.




DomKen -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 9:06:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This is utter horseshit.

A few years back my company did some work with a software house out of Toronto. Our companies were about the same size and we liked working with each other so we started talking about joint ventures and/or a merger. We went over each others books and we had virtually identical expenses except we had our huge monthly premium for health insurance. They were able to underbid us by about 5% because their costs were that much less and that was entirely driven by our providing a fairly basic health insurance to our staff.

In a global market where people can acquire things like software from anywhere then our health care costs must come down or companies that compete internationally will continue feeling pressured to drop the coverage entirely.


Of course not one thing youve cited here in any way addresses what you claim is utter horseshit. Its basic economics, Kendoll, not surprised its beyond your ken though (pun intended)

Your claim that it isn't bankrupting us is horseshit. As I've shown above. My company is being bankrupted trying to be both competitive and provide health insurance to its workers.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 9:07:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This is utter horseshit.

A few years back my company did some work with a software house out of Toronto. Our companies were about the same size and we liked working with each other so we started talking about joint ventures and/or a merger. We went over each others books and we had virtually identical expenses except we had our huge monthly premium for health insurance. They were able to underbid us by about 5% because their costs were that much less and that was entirely driven by our providing a fairly basic health insurance to our staff.

In a global market where people can acquire things like software from anywhere then our health care costs must come down or companies that compete internationally will continue feeling pressured to drop the coverage entirely.


Of course not one thing youve cited here in any way addresses what you claim is utter horseshit. Its basic economics, Kendoll, not surprised its beyond your ken though (pun intended)

Your claim that it isn't bankrupting us is horseshit. As I've shown above. My company is being bankrupted trying to be both competitive and provide health insurance to its workers.


your company isnt the country/economy, moron. Nobody said that one company would never be at a competitive disadvantage to another company.




DomKen -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 9:09:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This is utter horseshit.

A few years back my company did some work with a software house out of Toronto. Our companies were about the same size and we liked working with each other so we started talking about joint ventures and/or a merger. We went over each others books and we had virtually identical expenses except we had our huge monthly premium for health insurance. They were able to underbid us by about 5% because their costs were that much less and that was entirely driven by our providing a fairly basic health insurance to our staff.

In a global market where people can acquire things like software from anywhere then our health care costs must come down or companies that compete internationally will continue feeling pressured to drop the coverage entirely.


Of course not one thing youve cited here in any way addresses what you claim is utter horseshit. Its basic economics, Kendoll, not surprised its beyond your ken though (pun intended)

Your claim that it isn't bankrupting us is horseshit. As I've shown above. My company is being bankrupted trying to be both competitive and provide health insurance to its workers.


your company isnt the country/economy, moron.


My company and small business like it are the economy halfwit.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 9:11:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This is utter horseshit.

A few years back my company did some work with a software house out of Toronto. Our companies were about the same size and we liked working with each other so we started talking about joint ventures and/or a merger. We went over each others books and we had virtually identical expenses except we had our huge monthly premium for health insurance. They were able to underbid us by about 5% because their costs were that much less and that was entirely driven by our providing a fairly basic health insurance to our staff.

In a global market where people can acquire things like software from anywhere then our health care costs must come down or companies that compete internationally will continue feeling pressured to drop the coverage entirely.


Of course not one thing youve cited here in any way addresses what you claim is utter horseshit. Its basic economics, Kendoll, not surprised its beyond your ken though (pun intended)

Your claim that it isn't bankrupting us is horseshit. As I've shown above. My company is being bankrupted trying to be both competitive and provide health insurance to its workers.


your company isnt the country/economy, moron.


My company and small business like it are the economy halfwit.


And on other side of your company that couldnt compete is the company that beat you out of the contract, and is also part of the economy no wit. Im not the least bit surprised youre a failure in business given the level of your posts.




DomKen -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 9:26:37 PM)

The Canadian company, the one with single payer? Or did you think Toronto was in the US?




Brain -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 9:54:40 PM)


Technically he still kept his promise; he didn’t raise anyone’s income tax rates.
http://mediamatters.org/research/201002030004

This is in keeping with a right wing flat income tax rate philosophy anyway where you don’t have special deductions or omissions and pay a flat rate on everything.
Bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

This is why the democrats told everyone to pass the bill, you can read it later. Previously, your employer may have paid your health care premium, along with a minor contribution from you, and it was tax exempt to encourage employers to provide this for you.

Now, it will no longer be tax exempt. So they will have to include your health care premiums in your gross income, which will put millions of people into a higher tax bracket.

You people are suckers. Nothing is free in life, someone has to pay for it, and it will be the middle class. The freeloading welfare recipients will still be driving around in their new or tricked out cars, talking on cell phones, playing on the internet, and watching cable tv, thanks to hard working Americans paying for their health care. Hey, when you're having that much fun cruising and chasing women, who has time for a job, right???


http://www.resistnet.com/profiles/blogs/2011-w2-tax-forms-and?xg_source=activity

By the way, this is just one of the little surprises that people will slowly become aware of, and many of them don't kick in until after 2012 since they know it will destroy Obama's chances for reelection.




[image]local://upfiles/525209/D597AE21654741C8B3D17157A9B839A5.jpg[/image]





willbeurdaddy -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 9:54:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The Canadian company, the one with single payer? Or did you think Toronto was in the US?


Actually I missed that, apologies. Of course its interesting that you single out a 5% difference in health care premiums but dont bother to mention the corporate tax difference, which for a profitable US company are much higher. And since you were talking about a joint venture there was obviously enough business available to support both of your staffs, so "underbidding" wasnt really an issue.

Ie I dont believe you.




DomKen -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/17/2010 10:57:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The Canadian company, the one with single payer? Or did you think Toronto was in the US?


Actually I missed that, apologies. Of course its interesting that you single out a 5% difference in health care premiums but dont bother to mention the corporate tax difference, which for a profitable US company are much higher. And since you were talking about a joint venture there was obviously enough business available to support both of your staffs, so "underbidding" wasnt really an issue.

Ie I dont believe you.

They actually paid higher taxes not us but it was less than our health insurance premiums.

As to the joint venture, in the world of custom software sometimes two small to mid size shops may split a job that is too big for one or that need multiple specialists. It was something we looked at because we worked well together and we thought our combined teams might bring in some very large projects. What it did point out was that we were at a competitive disadvantage because our costs were simply higher than theirs.

I never said they underbid us, although they could and may well have on projects which we lost.

The point you're valiantly trying to avoid admiting is that the broken US health care system affects our companies competitveness on the world market. Small businesses like mine show that as does things like GM being burdened almost to bankruptcy with health benefits for its retirees.

HCR was a vital pro business move that had been put off for at least 20 years too long and the flat refusal of cons to even attempt to negotiate in good faith on the issue was repugnant and something to be ashamed of. If you don't like the law that got passed you have no one to blame but your representatives. The left in Congress and the President did everything but beg on their knees and resign their offices to get anyone on teh right to even make constructive suggestions.




slvemike4u -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/18/2010 12:56:27 AM)


And that,Ken is the bottom line....after obstructing,stonewalling and outright lying to the American people,Republican leadership...stood up and proclaimed the bill was flawed and needed to be scrapped...in favor of what?Just more stonewalling?
They chose not to be part of the process(better HCR be President Obama's Waterloo eh?)and than derided the finished product.
Meanwhile the idiots who listen to Rush and Beck(hi willbur)eat this bullshit up with a spoon....and,at least in the case of willbur,come back here and regurgitate,propagate and testify to this false truth.
Brings to mind a certain quote attributed to P.T.Barnum.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: New Health Care Bill Raises Your Taxes (7/18/2010 8:26:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

On January 1st, 2011. we will see the biggest tax increase our country has ever had. It won't be the rich, it will be everyone except the bums who already pay nothing.

I'm happy to be a bum.

I wonder if I'll get paid in cash or I'll get a tax credit when I'm appointed to a death panel. I'm guessing it will work sort of like jury duty.




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