Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 3:31:19 PM)

quote:

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. – An American Indian lacrosse team's refusal to travel on passports not issued by the Iroquois confederacy goes to the heart of one of the most sensitive issues in Indian Country — sovereignty. The rights of Native nations to govern themselves independently has long been recognized by federal treaties, but the extent of that recognition beyond U.S borders is under challenge in a post-Sept. 11 world. After initially refusing to accept Iroquois-issued passports because the documents lack security features, the State Department gave the team a one-time waiver.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100717/ap_on_re_us/us_iroquois_lacrosse_sovereignty

Considering every treaty ever signed and broken by the US did give native americans the right to govern themselves, I think every reservation and all the tribal lands and mineral rights to those lands should be declared independent nations.



pahunkboy -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 3:33:53 PM)

The Lacotas have had trouble with the feds- as do tribes in Canada.



jlf1961 -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 4:01:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

The Lacotas have had trouble with the feds- as do tribes in Canada.


It is Lakota which is both singular and plural



pahunkboy -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 4:28:18 PM)

Ok-  you are correct-


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakota_people



Louve00 -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 4:34:08 PM)

I just read this article from another source.  I first thought of Real0ne and his incessant talk of sovereignty.  I feel kind of bad for Native Americans who had this land taken away from them.  Gov't pushed them off into little pieces of land called reservations, gave them the right (gave them the right in a land that was theirs initially, that is) to be a sovereign.  As I understood that article, I understand it to mean that sovereignty means so very much to the Native American and now, once again, we are taking away from them, again.  Internationally. 

This issue was raised in Flagstaff AZ.  It also brought me to wonder how does AZ know the difference between an illegal alien and a Native American.  And how are the differences treated.  This article brought alot of questions to my mind.  In some ways, I can understand the reasons for the way Native Americans feel.  And in other ways, I can understand the need for a uniform means of international security, given that terrorists from abroad want so desperately to find a way here to do damage again. 

I think a huge "pow-wow" (no pun intended, but it does fit) is in order between the Iroquois, gov't and international gov't.



DomKen -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 4:50:59 PM)

The English refusing to let the Iriquois compete for the world championship of lacrosse because the Iriquois do not have fancy enough papers is a microcosm of the last 500 years all rolled into one irony filled moment.

Although to be honest if the Iriquois want to issue passports in a post 9/11 world they should make an effort to match the security features required of US and/or Canadian passports.



truckinslave -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 5:00:27 PM)

Indians should wake up and join the 21st century.




popeye1250 -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 5:02:58 PM)

I think they should let them travel to England or anywhere else but they *do* need to have *secure* passports that can't be reproduced by anyone else. Just make them a copy of the federal ones just like that law in Arizona!
And of course make sure that they don't let Ward "TONTO" Churchill get his hands on one.



pahunkboy -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 5:06:28 PM)

I first thought of Real0ne and his incessant talk of sovereignty./snip


I have not seen him anywhere.   I emailed him on regular email the other day.   He is no where to be found.



Louve00 -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 6:37:05 PM)

No doubt....he's lost in a huge pile of archaic books, highlighting and scanning things to get people on these boards all worked up [;)]

Just kidding, actually (but maybe not lol).  I too, do hope he's ok...as kooky as that cookie is.



MissCake -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 6:48:14 PM)

I doubt this was anything more than an actual issue of security features.  There are places in this world where bureaucracies are not trustworthy, and even state documents are dubious.  Can Iroquois Nation passports be trusted?  I don't know myself.  I am not a documents expert.  I would like to think they are.



thishereboi -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 7:44:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Indians should wake up and join the 21st century.




To quote a famous cm poster..."This has to be the dumbest post I have ever read"



Musicmystery -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 8:22:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. – An American Indian lacrosse team's refusal to travel on passports not issued by the Iroquois confederacy goes to the heart of one of the most sensitive issues in Indian Country — sovereignty. The rights of Native nations to govern themselves independently has long been recognized by federal treaties, but the extent of that recognition beyond U.S borders is under challenge in a post-Sept. 11 world. After initially refusing to accept Iroquois-issued passports because the documents lack security features, the State Department gave the team a one-time waiver.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100717/ap_on_re_us/us_iroquois_lacrosse_sovereignty

Considering every treaty ever signed and broken by the US did give native americans the right to govern themselves, I think every reservation and all the tribal lands and mineral rights to those lands should be declared independent nations.


When I hear them including refusing all benefits, services, funds, and citizenship rights in the U.S., I'll take that position seriously. Until then, it's playing both ends against the middle.

In this case, they were sovereign. And other nations have the right not to recognize them. The U.S. had to step in to help. Why didn't these proud sovereign nations refuse that help, if they want to be sovereign?

Sorry, I was once sympathetic, but I've seen so many abuses here at home, no different than corporate antics.

Settle the claims and get back to business. Until then, just more talk.



Musicmystery -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 8:24:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Although to be honest if the Iriquois want to issue passports in a post 9/11 world they should make an effort to match the security features required of US and/or Canadian passports.

Exactly.



FatDomDaddy -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 9:20:00 PM)

The Romans took land from the Greeks, Carthigians, the Gauls and Celts, the Celts took land from the Hiberians, the The Arabs and Huns took it from the Romans, The Angles, took it from the Clelts, The Franks, the Moors, the Lombards, Normans, and Vikings took it and so an and so on and so on ant that's just in Europe...

I'd get in to the vast land conquests of the Incas, Myans and Aztecs put y'all get the picture,



Musicmystery -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 9:21:29 PM)

It's a little more complicated than that.



Arpig -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 9:26:02 PM)

quote:

I think every reservation and all the tribal lands and mineral rights to those lands should be declared independent nations.
A lovely idea in theory, but none of them has the ability to survive economically as independent nations...you would be condemning the inhabitants to utter squalor and impoverishment and famine...they can't survive on their own, so some other solution must be found.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 9:45:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It's a little more complicated than that.



Oh really... why's that?



Arpig -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/17/2010 10:12:54 PM)

Because you guys signed treaties with them...



Politesub53 -> RE: Iroquois passport dispute raises sovereignty issue (7/18/2010 3:10:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Indians should wake up and join the 21st century.




And not just the Indians eh. [8|]



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