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British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,Thank... - 7/20/2010 3:56:11 PM   
Owner59


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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100720/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_iraq_inquiry


LONDON – The war in Iraq led to a loss of focus on the threat from al-Qaida, emboldened the group's leader Osama bin Laden, and helped to breed a generation of homegrown terrorists, Britain's former domestic spy chief told an inquiry Tuesday.

Making the sharpest criticism so far aired in Britain's inquiry into mistakes made in the Iraq war, Eliza Manningham-Buller, director of the MI5 agency between 2002 and 2007, said Britain's government paid little attention to warnings that the war would fuel domestic terrorism.

Manningham-Buller also said Iraq had posed little threat before the 2003 U.S.-led invasion, and insisted there was no evidence of a link between former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein and the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.

"There was no credible intelligence to suggest that connection and that was the judgment, I might say, of the CIA," she told the inquiry. "It was not a judgment that found favor with some parts of the American machine."


and

recommendations for future operations and military missions.

Manningham-Buller said the focus on Iraq had far-reaching consequences for the mission to tackle global terrorism.

"By focusing on Iraq, we reduced the focus on the al-Qaida threat in Afghanistan. I think that was a long-term, major and strategic problem," she told the panel.

She acknowledged the Iraq war vastly increased the terrorism threat to Britain — with her officers battling to handle a torrent of terrorism plots launched by homegrown radicals in the wake of the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

"Our involvement in Iraq radicalized, for want of a better word, a whole generation of young people — not a whole generation, a few among a generation — who saw our involvement in Iraq, on top of our involvement in Afghanistan, as being an attack on Islam," she said.

She disclosed for the first time that about 70 to 80 British citizens had traveled to Iraq to join the insurgency. Video messages left by the four suicide bombers who killed 52 commuters in the 2005 attacks on London's subway and bus network had referred to Britain's role in Iraq.

Manningham-Buller told the five-member inquiry panel that the decision to invade Iraq had likely provided an impetus to al-Qaida.

"Arguably we gave Osama bin Laden his Iraqi jihad, so that he was able to move into Iraq in a way that he was not before," she said.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/20/2010 3:59:16 PM >


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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/20/2010 3:59:42 PM   
jlf1961


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This fact has already been established some years ago. The BBC and other news agencies said as much a year after President Bush made the claim.

The simple truth is that President Bush lied to the American people to justify a war we had no business starting and the NEOCONS on this board would love for the truth to be forgotten.

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/20/2010 4:04:40 PM   
Politesub53


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We have known this here for ages Owner, both Bush and Blair have much to answer for. I cant wait for the neocons to come on and start yelling how much "safer" the world is now. The whole Iraq invasion has been proven to be based on lies both here and in the US.

Weapons of Mass Distraction indeed.

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/20/2010 4:14:06 PM   
Owner59


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Sometines unfortunately,it takes time for truth to become true.

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/20/2010 4:57:53 PM   
pahunkboy


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LOL.

Yeah- Alex was on this many years ago.

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/20/2010 9:06:14 PM   
Brain


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We were fortunate to have a liberal government led by Jean Christian and they did not get us into that Iraq mess.

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/21/2010 6:00:34 AM   
Aneirin


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The only thing good to come out of this mess, would be Bush and Blair in the Hague answering on charges of war crimes.

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/21/2010 6:19:29 AM   
Moonhead


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Like that's going to happen.

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/21/2010 6:25:07 AM   
Aneirin


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Exactly, the Iraq inquiry is going to turn out into a whitewash as it is and two war mongers go free, but what is particularly worse, is Bliar has gone on to be a peace envoy, wtf qualifies him for that.

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/21/2010 6:45:15 AM   
Sanity


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Saddam was a monstrous butcher like few others the world has ever known and we are all much better off without him and his sons walking the planet. Besides their mass murders and vast network of torture chambers and horrendous rape rooms he invaded two other countries, sponsored terrorism against Israel and attempted to have George H.W. Bush assassinated.  Bill Clinton was among a majority of Democratic leaders who called for Saddam Husseins overthrow on grounds of national security and for his humanitarian outrages and on top of all of that neither George Bush nor Tony Blair asserted that Iraq was behind the 911 terrorist attacks.

The reasons for liberating the Iraqi people were many, and top among them was the idea that if the Middle East could be made less volatile in the long run by removing such cancers as the Baathists then education and modernization could take root over there and eventually force out the backward thinking extremists. Its a strategy for the long haul, which had nothing to do with the primitive revenge motivation that many ignorant and uninformed people ascribe as the inspiration for freeing Iraq.


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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/21/2010 7:49:37 AM   
Owner59


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That wouldn`t have been enough to convince the American people to go to war.

We go to war with those who attack us.

Without your neo-con lies,scaring folks into thinking he was about to attack us(just after 9/11),we wouldn`t have invaded.

It just wouldn`t have happened.Fuck your rational and excuses.It wasn`t worth 4 thousand 3 hundred dead GIs.

Also,thanks for making Iran the region`s most powerful influence and power broker.Misery accomplished.





< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/21/2010 7:51:34 AM >


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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/21/2010 9:00:03 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Saddam was a monstrous butcher like few others the world has ever known


Worse than andrew jackson???


and we are all much better off without him and his sons walking the planet.


Did you forget we were his ally in his war with Iran?


Besides their mass murders and vast network of torture chambers and horrendous rape rooms

Didn't he learn how to do that at the "school of the americas" in panama?




he invaded two other countries,


We were an ally of his in his invasion of iran and april gilespi our ambasador to iraq told him that it was ok for him to take kuwait when he asked her about it.


sponsored terrorism against Israel

Had israel done nothing to him to warrant such action?


and attempted to have George H.W. Bush assassinated. 

Why do you think he might have done that?


Bill Clinton was among a majority of Democratic leaders who called for Saddam Husseins overthrow on grounds of national security and for his humanitarian outrages and on top of all of that neither George Bush nor Tony Blair asserted that Iraq was behind the 911 terrorist attacks.


Perhaps if you were to watch something besides faux news you would be a bit better informed on facts rather than spin


The reasons for liberating the Iraqi people were many,

By liberate you mean change one dictator for another.


and top among them was the idea that if the Middle East could be made less volatile in the long run by removing such cancers as the Baathists

Where is this authorized by the u.s. constitution?



then education and modernization could take root over there and eventually force out the backward thinking extremists.

The hillbilly from idaho is talking about education and modernization...you have more outhouses than cars for fucks sake...as for bckward thinking extremists mark furman is your next door neighbor


Its a strategy for the long haul, which had nothing to do with the primitive revenge motivation that many ignorant and uninformed people ascribe as the inspiration for freeing Iraq.

Iraq is less free today than at anytime in the past 20 years...have you ever been in the same zip code as a history book?



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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/21/2010 9:08:45 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Saddam was a monstrous butcher like few others the world has ever known and we are all much better off without him and his sons walking the planet.

If it took a Hussein to keep Iraq under control, then removing him was irresponsible. Still, perhaps you could explain how replacing a pragmatist who didn't run the country on religious lines with a shi'ite junta who love Iran the way Michael Jackson loved young boys has done a lot to make the region more stable? In twenty years time, this is going to look like an even bigger piece of fuckwittery than putting the Shah back in power.

Perhaps you can provide some evidence that the invasion of Iraq was staged over humanitarian grounds, and how Hussein's governance is more immoral than (say) that of Syria, Iran, North Korea, Turkey, Russia, Sri Lanka and elsewhere? I'd hate to think that this whole occupation was inspired by those huge oil reserves and you're talking out of your atrse about the other, after all.

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/21/2010 10:19:59 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Saddam was a monstrous butcher like few others the world has ever known and we are all much better off without him and his sons walking the planet. Besides their mass murders and vast network of torture chambers and horrendous rape rooms he invaded two other countries, sponsored terrorism against Israel and attempted to have George H.W. Bush assassinated.  Bill Clinton was among a majority of Democratic leaders who called for Saddam Husseins overthrow on grounds of national security and for his humanitarian outrages and on top of all of that neither George Bush nor Tony Blair asserted that Iraq was behind the 911 terrorist attacks.

The reasons for liberating the Iraqi people were many, and top among them was the idea that if the Middle East could be made less volatile in the long run by removing such cancers as the Baathists then education and modernization could take root over there and eventually force out the backward thinking extremists. Its a strategy for the long haul, which had nothing to do with the primitive revenge motivation that many ignorant and uninformed people ascribe as the inspiration for freeing Iraq.



So how is that wonderful plan working out?

Iraq city of Baquba hit by deadly market car bomb
BBC News - 10 minutes ago
A car bomb has exploded in a busy market near the Iraqi city of Baquba, to the north of Baghdad, killing at least 13 people, police say. ...10 killed, 17 injured in bombing at Iraqi market‎ - CNN International
Four killed by Iraq car bomb‎ - AFP
Car bomb kills 11 in village north of Baghdad‎ - The Associated Press



Sunni Awakening resolute in face of Iraq bombing
Christian Science Monitor - Scott Peterson - 1 day ago
That bombing claimed at least 43 lives








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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/21/2010 11:46:14 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Saddam was a monstrous butcher like few others the world has ever known and we are all much better off without him and his sons walking the planet. Besides their mass murders and vast network of torture chambers and horrendous rape rooms he invaded two other countries, sponsored terrorism against Israel and attempted to have George H.W. Bush assassinated.  Bill Clinton was among a majority of Democratic leaders who called for Saddam Husseins overthrow on grounds of national security and for his humanitarian outrages and on top of all of that neither George Bush nor Tony Blair asserted that Iraq was behind the 911 terrorist attacks.

The reasons for liberating the Iraqi people were many, and top among them was the idea that if the Middle East could be made less volatile in the long run by removing such cancers as the Baathists then education and modernization could take root over there and eventually force out the backward thinking extremists. Its a strategy for the long haul, which had nothing to do with the primitive revenge motivation that many ignorant and uninformed people ascribe as the inspiration for freeing Iraq.



I`m glad to see you are not in favour of invading Iran then.

All that has happenedin Iraq is one thuggish party has been replaced with another. Hows that working out for you ?
Did you even read the link in the OP. The then highest operative in MI5 states openly, that the UK secret service told them what would happen. Bush and Blair made things worse, everyone knows this, yet you cling to your idealogical bullshit about the Bathist Party. Thats the same party backed by the US and the UK, the same party given tacit permission to invade Iran. The same party who were told the US would have no concerns if they invaded Kuwait. Just how blinkered can you neocons be ! ( That wasnt a question )

You also claim it was a strategy for the long haul, while constantly expecting INSTANT results from President Obama. You are no longer claiming, as you used to, that it was all about WMD`s. Its hard to think you are not trying to wind everybody up with your farcical notions.

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/21/2010 2:33:11 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

The reasons for liberating the Iraqi people were many, and top among them was the idea that if the Middle East could be made less volatile in the long run by removing such cancers as the Baathists then education and modernization could take root over there and eventually force out the backward thinking extremists. Its a strategy for the long haul, which had nothing to do with the primitive revenge motivation that many ignorant and uninformed people ascribe as the inspiration for freeing Iraq.


Education and modernization? That's what we were fighting for and our kids were dying for? A strategy for the long haul? Can parents get their dead soldiers back while waiting for the long haul? Ya really believe that stuff or are you just reading from a neocon cue card?

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/21/2010 4:51:47 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity




The reasons for liberating the Iraqi people were many, and top among them was the idea that if the Middle East could be made less volatile in the long run by removing such cancers as the Baathists then education and modernization could take root over there and eventually force out the backward thinking extremists. Its a strategy for the long haul, which had nothing to do with the primitive revenge motivation that many ignorant and uninformed people ascribe as the inspiration for freeing Iraq.



Maybe the middle East could be made less volatile by not supporting the Israelis and their actions against Moslems, not just Palestinians, but Moslems, the same as the majority of the Middle East, or is it Israel is in fact an extension of the US in the region.

As to the rest of your reason ; Bullshit,and bullshit from beginning to end, the reason we all know was oil and oil is worth far more than people's lives.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/22/2010 2:44:16 PM   
alwayssummer


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 That this war was waged based upon lies to Congress and the public cannot be repeated often enough.  It's like evolution and climate change - these are established facts that only the  intellectually obstinate ( i.e. willfully ignorant)  refuse to acknowledge.  Besides the massive strategic damage this illegal war caused to the US, as outlined in the article, it's financial damage to the American economy was profoundly destabilizing. This Neocon "off the books" war and their unfunded tax cuts for the wealthy are well recognized as the two most economically destructive edicts of the Bush Administration.  Those are, again, just plain facts.(BTW I have no support for continuing the debt into the useless one billion dollars cost for every Al Quaida  in Afghanistan either...but another time, subject)

Having gained my political education and skepticism from the Vietnam Era, I was dumbfounded the day that the NeoCons invaded Iraq.  It seemed impossible that they could get away with it; many, many Senators were of the anti-war movement (Hilary, Kerry post service, Dodd) yet they  shockingly voted for the Iraq War Resolution.  Although they all - to a vote- knew that the 8 NeoCons had been eager to invade Iraq for  years & were just waiting for an excuse.  (according to Bob Woodward's book on this)

I look very carefully at the Senators who bravely voted against the Iraq War Resolution:  Barbara Boxer  and  Russ Feingold were among them.  Coincidentally, both of these Senators also  had the foresight to vote against the repeal of Glass
Steagall,  which has been cited as the most profound impetus for our current financial debacle and Wall Street's rise to omnipotence.

Sure, I hope that Cheney and Bush and Wolfie and Rummie and Rice et alios will be charged with war crimes someday.  And if they travel outside the US, perhaps they will be rightfully arrested.  (you notice they pretty much stay within the protection of our borders) But in the meantime, I continue to donate for those Congresspeople like Boxer and Feingold, who were among  the few Senators who did not cave to NeoCon lies and fear tactics on Iraq or  to Wall Street tsunami pressure on Glass Steagall.

Both Boxer & Feingold are right now in reelection races against obscenely wealthy Republicans who are trying to buy their Senate Seats with their own "vanity" bloated war chests,BTW.
I'm not even financially comfortable right now, but I'm willing to send small donations to the few who did vote against the Iraq War when they now need to keep their jobs and public podium.  I cannot emotionally just sit around and and be frustrated;   I want to still try to keep people in office whose vote I can count upon to parallel my own views and information.  Just eternally optimistic I guess... ( I like Barbara Mikulski too, but she's not running for relection. It's interesting who pops up when you cross reference these two watershed votes...)









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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/22/2010 5:36:36 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: alwayssummer

 That this war was waged based upon lies to Congress and the public cannot be repeated often enough. 




Yup, too bad repeating something doesnt make it true.

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RE: British Intel Cheif:No link between Iraq and 9/11,T... - 7/22/2010 5:40:52 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: alwayssummer

That this war was waged based upon lies to Congress and the public cannot be repeated often enough. 




Yup, too bad repeating something doesnt make it true.


Dont tell me he DID have wmd`s !  A place and date of where they were found would suffice.

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