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America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 2:21:16 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here%27s-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA

This is why we're going to have a Depression unless we start getting out of all those "free trade" deals.
It is "THE GOVT" that is "allowing" this to happen, not The People!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 7/24/2010 2:23:08 PM >

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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 2:31:13 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here%27s-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA

This is why we're going to have a Depression unless we start getting out of all those "free trade" deals.
It is "THE GOVT" that is "allowing" this to happen, not The People!


A large contributor to the shrinking middle class is "redistribution of wealth". There arent enough super-wealthy to support those programs even if taxed at 90%, so the middle class has to be raped for a large portion of what would have been their investable/savable income that would allow them to maintain middle class status.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 7/24/2010 2:32:28 PM >

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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 2:39:31 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Started with Reagan breaking the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization`s union.Been down hill at every turn since.

Things leveled out during Clinton,savings went up,more consumer debt was payed down and consumer confidence was way up.Poverty went down with those folks joining the middle class.

The middle class did ok under Clinton.Monica?Not so much.

During bush,the middle class began to slide back downwards and poverty went up.Especially after 17 billion in middle class savings and pensions evaporated.

The rich did pretty good under bush tho and some of them even received billions and billions in your and my tax dollars for bush`s Banker Bail-out and Bar-B-Q Benefit.


Emmmmm bushed.....

Miss him yet Pops?


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/24/2010 2:41:49 PM >

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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 2:43:11 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		So, popeye, what do you think about unions, by chance?  They drove a lot of the middle class....whether for good or ill.
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here%27s-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA

This is why we're going to have a Depression unless we start getting out of all those "free trade" deals.
It is "THE GOVT" that is "allowing" this to happen, not The People!

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 2:46:04 PM   
hsimlexx


Posts: 10
Joined: 11/2/2005
Status: offline 		Wilbeurdaddy,
That redistribution you worry about has already happened.  The wealthiest 1% doubled their share of wealth. You don't have to shed tears for them, they got theirs and those representing their interests are loving how 9% unemployment could last another 2 years. Whatever wealth the unemployed have is sure to be drained upward to the wealthy you are so concerned about.

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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 2:50:52 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Old news. USA economy was described as a "plutonomy" by a Citigroup in 2006.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20090907/citigroup-2006-americamodern-day-plutonomy.htm
Here is a discussion worth reading (in my view):
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2010/07/phil-it-is-end-of-world-as-we-know-it.html

It ends with a pessimism:
"It’s a new world, America, and you’d better get used to it – we were sold down the river on a slow boat to China long ago and we’re only just beginning to feel the first effects of waves that wash back to our own shores."

There will still be lot of leftover scraps to be picked up by a people who are educated, informed, and understand how to play the system.

It was not Bush who did it. Bush was just a front man, the same way Obama is.

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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 3:38:56 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

So, popeye, what do you think about unions, by chance?  They drove a lot of the middle class....whether for good or ill.
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here%27s-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA

This is why we're going to have a Depression unless we start getting out of all those "free trade" deals.
It is "THE GOVT" that is "allowing" this to happen, not The People!




Thorn, I'm *totally* in favor of Unions!
And from the looks of this article we're going to need them! I grew up "Union." Two of my brothers are in Unions! One the Firefighter's Union the other in the notorious "Local 25" Teamsters in Boston.

Owner, Clinton was the WORST! He's the one who got "NAFTA" signed into law by promising us "millions of high-paying manufacturing jobs and much less illegal immigration!" It's been SIXTEEN years of "sucking sound" so far.
At this point I don't know how anyone could be in favor of "NAFTA" unless you're on the board of a huge corporation!
Didn't Obama say he was going to "revisit" Nafta during his campaign? How's about he tear up that document on live t.v.?
Things are going to get a LOT worse before they get better! I can see "ten million man marches" in Washington with torches and pitchforks if *our government* doesn't start getting us out of all this "global foolishness!"
And I'll be right there with them!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 7/24/2010 3:41:26 PM >

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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 4:12:32 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hsimlexx

Wilbeurdaddy,
That redistribution you worry about has already happened.  The wealthiest 1% doubled their share of wealth. You don't have to shed tears for them, they got theirs and those representing their interests are loving how 9% unemployment could last another 2 years. Whatever wealth the unemployed have is sure to be drained upward to the wealthy you are so concerned about.



Who said Im worried about the wealthy? They can manage quite well without my tears.

I was discussing the shrinking middle class, the subject of this thread, and it is the group that has the least representation in government and the deepest pocket that can be dipped into. (and "dipped" in the sense of pickpocketing is also a very appropriate term here)

It is simple math. When you redistribute wealth from any higher class to a less productive class, you slow economic growth. Due to the size of the middle class vs the wealthy, most of the redistribution must come disproportionately from the middle class as a whole. Take disproportionately more from the middle class as a whole and the middle class shrinks in overall wealth. The bottom end of the middle class falls out of the middle class and the middle class shrinks. Voila.

And back to the wealthy...since so much of the middle and lower classes' wealth is either spent or taxed, it is obvious that the wealthy will grow even faster, since they can invest and profit from the spending of the rest. However, the answer isnt to tax them more, but to have government consume less. When those dollars are put to productive use, everyone benefits.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 7/24/2010 4:15:04 PM >

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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 4:18:05 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: hsimlexx

Wilbeurdaddy,
That redistribution you worry about has already happened.  The wealthiest 1% doubled their share of wealth. You don't have to shed tears for them, they got theirs and those representing their interests are loving how 9% unemployment could last another 2 years. Whatever wealth the unemployed have is sure to be drained upward to the wealthy you are so concerned about.



Who said Im worried about the wealthy? They can manage quite well without my tears.

I was discussing the shrinking middle class, the subject of this thread, and it is the group that has the least representation in government and the deepest pocket that can be dipped into. (and "dipped" in the sense of pickpocketing is also a very appropriate term here)

It is simple math. When you redistribute wealth from any higher class to a less productive class, you slow economic growth. Due to the size of the middle class vs the wealthy, most of the redistribution must come disproportionately from the middle class as a whole. Take disproportionately more from the middle class as a whole and the middle class shrinks in overall wealth. The bottom end of the middle class falls out of the middle class and the middle class shrinks. Voila.


Wilbeur, true!
And everytime they send 100,000 blue collar jobs overseas they also send 30,000 white collar jobs with them.
And now Obama wants to sign *more* "free trade" deals with Colombia, Chile and S. Korea? That'll be *another 10 million jobs lost in this country!
I wonder what the "real" unemployment rate is in this country?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 5:19:45 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

When you redistribute wealth from any higher class to a less productive class, you slow economic growth.



When you redistribute wealth from the working class Americans to the higher class Americans, you slow economic growth. The higher class (CEO's) are the ones sending jobs overseas.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 5:25:57 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

When you redistribute wealth from any higher class to a less productive class, you slow economic growth.



When you redistribute wealth from the working class Americans to the higher class Americans, you slow economic growth. The higher class (CEO's) are the ones sending jobs overseas.


Wealth has never been redistributed in that direction in the US. And jobs are being sent overseas because people will accept lower quality in exchange for lower price. CEOs are simply accomodating the desires of their customers, so put the "blame", if you want to call it that, on consumers, not CEOs who are doing their job.

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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 6:06:54 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Wealth has never been redistributed in that direction in the US. And jobs are being sent overseas because people will accept lower quality in exchange for lower price. CEOs are simply accomodating the desires of their customers, so put the "blame", if you want to call it that, on consumers, not CEOs who are doing their job.


So American workers are asking CEO's to cut their jobs so they can be unemployed and buy cheap foreign crap? Are you serious? Greedy CEO's send work overseas so they don't have to pay decent wages or pay for employee health insurance since most countries have single payer health care. This way, they get to keep more money for themselves. Consumers buy foreign made because American made is either too difficult to find or it's all they can afford because some CEO outsourced their decent paying job.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 6:14:41 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:



ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Wealth has never been redistributed in that direction in the US. And jobs are being sent overseas because people will accept lower quality in exchange for lower price. CEOs are simply accomodating the desires of their customers, so put the "blame", if you want to call it that, on consumers, not CEOs who are doing their job.


And just what is their job Willbeur?

To rape consumers to benefit their shareholders?

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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 6:19:06 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:



ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Wealth has never been redistributed in that direction in the US. And jobs are being sent overseas because people will accept lower quality in exchange for lower price. CEOs are simply accomodating the desires of their customers, so put the "blame", if you want to call it that, on consumers, not CEOs who are doing their job.


And just what is their job Willbeur?

To rape consumers to benefit their shareholders?



Thats the great thing about the free market. It automatically dismisses crackpots like you and asinine statements like yours.

How long would a company that "rapes" its consumers stay in business?

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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 6:21:01 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:


This is why we're going to have a Depression unless we start getting out of all those "free trade" deals.
It is "THE GOVT" that is "allowing" this to happen, not The People!
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here%27s-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA

This is why we're going to have a Depression unless we start getting out of all those "free trade" deals.
It is "THE GOVT" that is "allowing" this to happen, not The People!


Well golly Popeye, didn't you just say yesterday that we were already in a Depression?

You need to make up your mind before you make yourself look more foolish than usual.




< Message edited by rulemylife -- 7/24/2010 6:22:47 PM >

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RE: America's Shrinking Middle Class - 7/24/2010 6:26:03 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:



ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Wealth has never been redistributed in that direction in the US. And jobs are being sent overseas because people will accept lower quality in exchange for lower price. CEOs are simply accomodating the desires of their customers, so put the "blame", if you want to call it that, on consumers, not CEOs who are doing their job.


And just what is their job Willbeur?

To rape consumers to benefit their shareholders?



Thats the great thing about the free market. It automatically dismisses crackpots like you and asinine statements like yours.

How long would a company that "rapes" its consumers stay in business?


Really?

Seriously?

How many examples would you like me to name?

Does Enron ring a bell?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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