RE: Taking offense? (Full Version)

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leadership527 -> RE: Taking offense? (8/10/2010 12:59:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
I don't know about that Jeff. I'm not sure it's as simple as looking at the dynamic type. If you look at the answers in the thread, it's fairly obvious there is a way to suggest things that may be better than others. Even in a TPE situation, if one constantly indicated to their partner by their comments and the way they made them that they did not believe their partner was good enough, eventually it would probably destroy the foundation of the relationship.

I totally agree laurell. The bottom line is that this works for me because Carol is absolutely, positively, 120% certain that it is her I love, not her looks. Nor am I crass about it. What I don't get is how you could end up giving your entire self to someone (TPE relationship) without having some pretty strong feelings of connection and safety already in place.

Moreover, any "leader" who is constantly belittling those following him or her is a pretty crappy leader. People rise or fall to the level of the leader's expectations. So in such a situation you have a crappy leader and an idiot slave (for choosing said leader).

Maybe the right way to say this is that in reasonably well functioning relationships, these things get worked out. In crappy relationships this, among an entire laundry list of other issues, causes problems.




laurell3 -> RE: Taking offense? (8/10/2010 1:05:53 PM)

I agree completely. I think many people get caught up with the fantasy and forget the humanity. Understanding that humanity and taking the time to invest in a strong foundation is the key to control in my opinion.




leadership527 -> RE: Taking offense? (8/10/2010 2:02:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
I agree completely. I think many people get caught up with the fantasy and forget the humanity. Understanding that humanity and taking the time to invest in a strong foundation is the key to control in my opinion.
You know, that's such a fascinating statement to me. In my own quirky little brain it goes like this... "I HAVE A FUCKING FEMALE SLAVEGIRL FOR REAL! How, exactly, am I supposed to embellish THAT and make it better than the reality. The idea that I would forget the humanity... which is the real part... in favor of some fantasy which could only ever be less interesting just eludes me.




porcelaine -> RE: Taking offense? (8/10/2010 3:20:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I understand all that you have pointed out, Porcelaine, but I still maintain that many people have a very unrealistic visual of what they want their partner to look like.


Many people have aesthetic preferences and more than a few dominants have actual requirements. Now this is where I differ from the latter. I'm apt to select a partner that falls within that threshold rather than attempt to customize the person to suit my standard. However, there are merits to both approaches and I'm viewing this from a TPE perspective.

quote:

Because of that, many, many people use passive aggressive techniques to make their partner feel badly about how they look, that they are not measuring up, etc.


I'm not excusing the behavior but let's look at this rationally. The impact of his comments is largely based on the submissive's self-esteem, body image, and overall perception of her appearance. Nonetheless she chose him and I have been with men that had requirements and it was revealed early on. I'm left to wonder why a woman would continue a situation with someone if she fell outside his parameters and had no intention or desire for modification.

quote:

As I stated, if one asks for an opinion or advice, that is a different story.


This is a power exchange right? What you're addressing happens in non kink relationships. Are we dealing with a dominant or a marionette?

quote:

The other examples on the show were less intense, but no less hurtful. A psychologist came on and said these people are delusional and hurtful and offensive and that they are damaging their partner's self esteem.


I think the women you're referencing had issues on their own that had nothing to do with their partner. I don't know any well adjusted woman that would have listened to that for five years. Seriously.

quote:

That is how I see some of this topic. Not that all comments or wishes to see shorter or longer hair, etc are bad, but if you need to change someone that much, there is a much bigger issue going on.


While each relationship has its parameters, in terms of M/s, this would be very peculiar in my mind. Either she's a slave and adhering to his will or she's customizing the kneel. I would not accept that behavior.

quote:

Perhaps I have been lucky in my life that none of my relationships felt any need to criticize or change my looks.


If I address something with a submissive it will always be an enhancement and I provide concrete reasons why I believe the change is beneficial. Should I desire for him to see an image consultant or have a wardrobe consultation I expect it to occur. Although I'm not the my way or highway sort, I'll readily admit that obedience and a pliant personality are what I'm seeking. If I have to debate about his clothing after my preferences and standards have been conveyed I'd think it was indicative of a much larger issue.

~porcelaine




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