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RE: An interesting question - 7/26/2010 11:07:32 PM

dovie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am sure you know that the bible has been so bastardized from the original writings that none of it makes much sense. So much has been deleted. So much has been tweaked to give more power to churches. It's pretty much worthless in my eyes.

So much has been left out, books were destroyed and hidden. Who knows what was orginially intended. The selection process in the name of "the church," and religion left us with altered stories. Still, it remains a fascinating book to me and I enjoy reading it.

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RE: An interesting question - 7/26/2010 11:11:23 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
what it looks like right now with the current evidence on the table is that Cain slew Abel and then moved to a different part of Africa and started fucking monkeys.

Um, however ingenious that solution is, T, it does not explain why some people are chicken. Therefore you might want to reconsider and perhaps conclude that it is more likely that Cain fucked chickens?

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RE: An interesting question - 7/27/2010 5:38:54 AM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

If you, as some fundamentalists do, were to take the bible as the history of humanity from creation until the time of Christ, you then have a few questions, all raised by Genesis.

The primary one being, where did Cain's wife come from?

There is a major taboo against incest in the bible, so he didnt marry a sister.

Therefore, if man were created twice, as it seems following the Genesis account, were the first man and woman "primitive" as compared to Adam and Eve, or was the first account the creation of Adam and his first wife Lilith?

So, you just aren't ready to look at this outside the fundamentalist view of the literal, inerrant, bible, are you? Sorry. Can't help you with that. I'm not even a Christian, much less a fundy. Genesis is the creation myth of a violent middle eastern tribe, with a monotheistic belief system.

If we are just playing with the question though, which came first do you think? The children of the first couple, or the taboos against incest? It does seem like it would have taken at least a few generations for them to decide it was a problem sufficient to create a taboo over.

Actually I posed the question after watching a series of shows called "Banned from the Bible."

There are many books that were not used in the western bible that show up in the Ethiopian version, which is the only way we know of them. One such book is called "Jubilees" in which the question is answered with incest.

There is of course Jewish Folklore in the form of "The Alphabet of Ben-Sira" which avoids the issue of Cain's wife altogether.

It seems to me that people who take the bible literally are creating a series of paradoxes that have no easy solution.

IF god created one man and one woman, then incest was the only way for the children to have mates and children.

IF god created man and woman twice, then there is no problem, IF god created more than one of each the first time.

However, if you look at the bible and follow the order of creation and compare that with how the Universe evolved, then it follows that Adam and Eve were the first modern humans and their children interbred with the primitives, paradox solved.

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RE: An interesting question - 7/27/2010 5:43:50 AM

thishereboi

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Wow, I didn't realize you were religious. What church do you attend?

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RE: An interesting question - 7/27/2010 5:59:43 AM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Wow, I didn't realize you were religious. What church do you attend?

I am not religious, I believe in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy spirit, but as far as attending church, I don't. I was raised Catholic but havent been to mass in years.

I just found after watching the shows that there are questions that nobody seems to have answers to, and those ancient sages or scribes that tried to answer the questions just created more problems than they solved.

The creation story is just one area where the questions come up, and, looking at it with the prohibitions of the bible in mind, are the most glaring.

Even when you look at other questions the old testament raise, such as the prohibition of Jews marrying outside their religion, you again come up against the problem of marrying relatives.

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RE: An interesting question - 7/27/2010 7:20:44 AM

tazzygirl

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But didnt they have a process in place for a non-jew to become of their faith?

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RE: An interesting question - 7/27/2010 8:37:18 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Wow, I didn't realize you were religious. What church do you attend?

I am not religious, I believe in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy spirit, but as far as attending church, I don't. I was raised Catholic but havent been to mass in years.

I just found after watching the shows that there are questions that nobody seems to have answers to, and those ancient sages or scribes that tried to answer the questions just created more problems than they solved.

The creation story is just one area where the questions come up, and, looking at it with the prohibitions of the bible in mind, are the most glaring.

Even when you look at other questions the old testament raise, such as the prohibition of Jews marrying outside their religion, you again come up against the problem of marrying relatives.

I think one of the main problems with the bible is no one know what the original message really was. It has been revised so often and translated that it has lost a lot of its original meaning.

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RE: An interesting question - 7/27/2010 8:45:52 AM

RCdc

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There was a thread about it here a couple of months back.
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3276792/mpage_1/tm.htm

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RE: An interesting question - 7/27/2010 11:19:26 AM

jlf1961

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Tradition has Genesis being written between 1450 and 1410 BCE, when the Israelites were wondering in the wilderness after leaving Egypt.

The author is supposed to be Moses, and is considered the first book of Moses. The oldest manuscript of Genesis dates to the 2nd century BCE.

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RE: An interesting question - 7/27/2010 1:38:20 PM

Rule

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Perhaps you ought to read Kirata's links?

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RE: An interesting question - 7/27/2010 5:58:29 PM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Tradition has Genesis being written between 1450 and 1410 BCE, when the Israelites were wondering in the wilderness after leaving Egypt.

The author is supposed to be Moses, and is considered the first book of Moses. The oldest manuscript of Genesis dates to the 2nd century BCE.

If Genesis is supposed to have been written between 1450 and 1410 BCE, that makes the old testement, er, kind of modern in respect to other belief systems and indeed civilisations. If that is so, how did it come to be spread so far and come to be a belief that supposedly guides the major powers in the world in the past and present day.

I wonder though, could it's proficiency be to do with the fact that as a belief guides, it can be used to manipulate others that are also guided.

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