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Why I Believe America's government will continue to grow - 7/27/2010 8:18:01 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

I have had this "theory" for a few years, that we are at the end of an era, and we will soon be turning a very interesting corner in American history that will involve massive government growth and the government basically gaining more and more power.

With so many people dependent on the government in order to even live and survive, doesn't that seem the logical way we are headed?

Taxes will slowly creep up, and those that are dependent on some form of government assistance: school grants, free and reduced lunches, health care, social security, unemployment, medicaid, medicare, section 8, food stamps, emergency housing, emergency shelter, free camps, free clinics, and the myriad of other government programs and services I can't even think of right now.

If/when the current economic system gets worse, and I don't see why or how it will not continue to get worse, there will be more people knocking on the door that is Uncle Sam in order to survive.

Who else is waiting and watching the end of an era, and the predictable not so distant future in which the government will soon be running or have their hand in almost everything we do?

When that time comes, I pray that we end up with a system that is very similar to our Canadian neighbors, and we are able to work it out.
I really hope the new era combines Capitalism and Socialism, effectively.

Change is coming!
My question to you is: What changes do you see coming to the United States of America in a big way and are you happy with the changes that you see coming?

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/27/2010 8:45:34 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

Post #: 1

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/27/2010 8:45:22 PM

AnimusRex

Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

Have you done any homework to come to this conclusion?

For instance, are government social welfare programs larger now than they were say, in 1980? Are the benefits more generous?

I find it interesting that you speak about "government growing larger" yet the only items you mention are social welfare programs; do you know how much the government spends on social welfare programs versus defense?

If you want to make an argument in favor of greater self-reliance, and smaller government, I can offer you some helpful suggestions:

1. Warmaking is always, always insanely expensive; warmaking always, always, enlarges the power, breadth and scale of government. To reduce the power and reach of government, stop making wars.

2. Self-reliance comes from economic empowerment; when people are educated and skilled, they can more easily find work to support themselves. To increase individual self-reliance, invest massively in schools and colleges.

3. Self-reliance comes from economic security; The marketplace is inherently chaotic, and prone to wild boom/ crash cycles. To increase economic security, regulate the marketplace to dampen the heights and troughs of economic cycles, and establish a form of mandatory retirement savings accounts to provide "social security" so people aren't vulnerable to the inevitable economic depressions.

Those are just a few ideas. They aren't mine, other great people came up with them long ago, around 1933. These ideas kept America's economy strong and healthy for over 60 years, until we lost faith in them and listened to the siren song of those who promised us that the banks could be turned into casinos with no risk to the rest of us, that oil companies could be trusted to regulate themselves, and today we are in the middle of a Great Recession, with oil covering the entire Gulf Coast.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 2

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/27/2010 8:50:55 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

Thanks for responding Rex, maybe I should also say that our dependence on government programs seems to be growing?

I have not "researched" any numbers, but based on the way that unemployment benefits have been extended the past few years, and the number of people that are unemployed, underemployed and need government assistance, I sort of figured the number of people that are in NEED of government assistance was growing, I could be wrong.

Let me check it out.

I just found out that Medicaid was one of many states largest expenses, and the NEED for government services does appear to be growing.

I am the type of person that enjoys looking around, and creating thoughts based on the world I see around me, and of course I am influenced by the media as we all are.
Is it possible to express a NEW OPINION about what MIGHT happen, based on what is happening today?
Or is history only determined by what has happened to us before?
I know that those that don't learn by history are doomed to repeat it, have we learned anything useful from the last Depression?
I think we are going forward in unchartered waters, and just wondering if anyone else feels the government is gaining more and more control over our daily lives?

I look forward to hearing people's opinions, and you don't even have to provide links to back up every thought in your head.
It really is okay, to just ponder, wonder and think.
It is okay to think in and outside of the box, and we don't always need google links to back up being able to hold a point of few.

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/27/2010 9:28:03 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 3

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/27/2010 8:55:20 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Taxes will slowly creep up, and those that are dependent on some form of government assistance: school grants, free and reduced lunches, health care, social security, unemployment, medicaid, medicare, section 8, food stamps, emergency housing, emergency shelter, free camps, free clinics, and the myriad of other government programs and services I can't even think of right now.

If/when the current economic system gets worse, and I don't see why or how it will not continue to get worse, there will be more people knocking on the door that is Uncle Sam in order to survive.

How funny you count social programs as the "Big Government Boogieman" when it is the military and and spending on government contracts that is bleeding us dry....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 4

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/27/2010 9:00:10 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Thanks for responding Rex, maybe I should also say that our dependence on government programs seems to be growing?

I have not "researched" any numbers, but based on the way that unemployment benefits have been extended the past few years, and the number of people that are unemployed, underemployed and need government assistance, I sort of figured the number of people that are in NEED of government assistance was growing, I could be wrong.

Let me check it out.

I just found out that Medicaid was one of many states largest expenses, and the NEED for government services does appear to be growing.

Let me know what you manage to find out.

I am glad you are willing to check it out... also look for "Bush era tax cuts expiring in 2010" and read up how the rich want to continue to get their tax break when the rest of the country is expected to suck it up and pay for wall street bail outs, etc... under clinton we had a projected balanced budget...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 5

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/27/2010 9:02:55 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Taxes will slowly creep up, and those that are dependent on some form of government assistance: school grants, free and reduced lunches, health care, social security, unemployment, medicaid, medicare, section 8, food stamps, emergency housing, emergency shelter, free camps, free clinics, and the myriad of other government programs and services I can't even think of right now.

If/when the current economic system gets worse, and I don't see why or how it will not continue to get worse, there will be more people knocking on the door that is Uncle Sam in order to survive.

How funny you count social programs as the "Big Government Boogieman" when it is the military and and spending on government contracts that is bleeding us dry....

Oh I should have put military spending as the single largest government expense!
In fact, due to involvement in 2 wars, with no real end in sight, the ever present growing military and military expenses, will be a major catalyst in creating our future government state!

The ever necessary and ever growing military certainly assists in escalating more government control.

I hope people will post about government programs, systems, and policies that I haven't mentioned.

It isn't just about spending money julia, it is going to be about the government gaining more control in people's lives.
We will soon be seeing that with the National Health Care reform.

I hope someone will post details about the coming government health care program, I know we have had hundreds of threads onhere on the subject of government healthcare.

Government run health care, coming to a city near you soon!

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/27/2010 9:06:55 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 6

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/27/2010 9:13:43 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Thanks for responding Rex, maybe I should also say that our dependence on government programs seems to be growing?

I have not "researched" any numbers, but based on the way that unemployment benefits have been extended the past few years, and the number of people that are unemployed, underemployed and need government assistance, I sort of figured the number of people that are in NEED of government assistance was growing, I could be wrong.

Let me check it out.

I just found out that Medicaid was one of many states largest expenses, and the NEED for government services does appear to be growing.

Let me know what you manage to find out.

I am glad you are willing to check it out... also look for "Bush era tax cuts expiring in 2010" and read up how the rich want to continue to get their tax break when the rest of the country is expected to suck it up and pay for wall street bail outs, etc... under clinton we had a projected balanced budget...

This OP is not really about government spending, as it was more about whether other people see the government gaining more and more control in our daily lives.
Will we end up with a Capitalist/Government sort of system like the Canadians eventually down the road, as the government becomes involved and takes over more areas of our lives?

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 7

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 12:50:43 AM

Fellow

Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

At the moment the US government borrows 60 cents per every dollar it spends. How can the US government possibly grow? This level of borrowing can not continue. It will fall sharply when the US dollar use as the world reserve currency ends. The last will happen inevitably within the few coming years. As the economy is stagnant the increased taxation would be risky. It may not increase the revenue much. Many US states are reducing their governments already.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 8

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 2:47:29 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

Marini, are you referring to the federal government exclusively?

State and local governments have been getting squeezed lately. The federal government has been getting squeezed as well but has expanded nonetheless.

I predict that the federal government will continue to expand, and that the state and local governments will do so at a smaller rate.

One thing you did not point out is that the federal government has few tools available to counter unemployment, and making new government jobs is one of them.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Fellow)

Post #: 9

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 7:28:59 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Thanks for responding Rex, maybe I should also say that our dependence on government programs seems to be growing?

I have not "researched" any numbers, but based on the way that unemployment benefits have been extended the past few years, and the number of people that are unemployed, underemployed and need government assistance, I sort of figured the number of people that are in NEED of government assistance was growing, I could be wrong.

Let me check it out.

I just found out that Medicaid was one of many states largest expenses, and the NEED for government services does appear to be growing.

Let me know what you manage to find out.

I am glad you are willing to check it out... also look for "Bush era tax cuts expiring in 2010" and read up how the rich want to continue to get their tax break when the rest of the country is expected to suck it up and pay for wall street bail outs, etc... under clinton we had a projected balanced budget...

Come on now. Don't you know we have to PAY the rich so that they will stay here and keep us employed at our minimum wage jobs? We are depenedent on them. How dare you say that they shouldn't keep their tax cuts. Think of all the jobs they have created since Bush brought those tax cuts into being. Socialist!

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 10

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 7:33:44 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Taxes will slowly creep up, and those that are dependent on some form of government assistance: school grants, free and reduced lunches, health care, social security, unemployment, medicaid, medicare, section 8, food stamps, emergency housing, emergency shelter, free camps, free clinics, and the myriad of other government programs and services I can't even think of right now.

If/when the current economic system gets worse, and I don't see why or how it will not continue to get worse, there will be more people knocking on the door that is Uncle Sam in order to survive.

How funny you count social programs as the "Big Government Boogieman" when it is the military and and spending on government contracts that is bleeding us dry....

Oh I should have put military spending as the single largest government expense!
In fact, due to involvement in 2 wars, with no real end in sight, the ever present growing military and military expenses, will be a major catalyst in creating our future government state!

The ever necessary and ever growing military certainly assists in escalating more government control.

I hope people will post about government programs, systems, and policies that I haven't mentioned.

It isn't just about spending money julia, it is going to be about the government gaining more control in people's lives.
We will soon be seeing that with the National Health Care reform.

I hope someone will post details about the coming government health care program, I know we have had hundreds of threads onhere on the subject of government healthcare.

Government run health care, coming to a city near you soon!

It's called Medicare. You don't hear any seniors complaining about it. They adore their version of socialized medicine.

Medicare tells them how and when they can recieve tests and procedures in order for it to be compensated under the plan.

_____________________________

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 11

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 7:41:12 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Taxes will slowly creep up, and those that are dependent on some form of government assistance: school grants, free and reduced lunches, health care, social security, unemployment, medicaid, medicare, section 8, food stamps, emergency housing, emergency shelter, free camps, free clinics, and the myriad of other government programs and services I can't even think of right now.

If/when the current economic system gets worse, and I don't see why or how it will not continue to get worse, there will be more people knocking on the door that is Uncle Sam in order to survive.

How funny you count social programs as the "Big Government Boogieman" when it is the military and and spending on government contracts that is bleeding us dry....

Oh I should have put military spending as the single largest government expense!
In fact, due to involvement in 2 wars, with no real end in sight, the ever present growing military and military expenses, will be a major catalyst in creating our future government state!

The ever necessary and ever growing military certainly assists in escalating more government control.

I hope people will post about government programs, systems, and policies that I haven't mentioned.

It isn't just about spending money julia, it is going to be about the government gaining more control in people's lives.
We will soon be seeing that with the National Health Care reform.

I hope someone will post details about the coming government health care program, I know we have had hundreds of threads onhere on the subject of government healthcare.

Government run health care, coming to a city near you soon!

Or we could go the complete opposite way and have the sort of end that the British Company National Grid gave to this woman in NH.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/06/nh_woman_dies_a.html

Somehow, left with the choice, I will take the Gov't.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 12

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 8:01:21 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

I hope someone will post details about the coming government health care program, I know we have had hundreds of threads onhere on the subject of government healthcare.

Unfortunately there is no coming "government healthcare program" ... rest assured, we will continue to have the lowest life expectancy, the highest infant mortality rate, and spend more than any other country on our healthcare.... no big bad ObamaCare is coming to a town near you

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 13

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 8:14:33 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I hope someone will post details about the coming government health care program, I know we have had hundreds of threads onhere on the subject of government healthcare.

Unfortunately there is no coming "government healthcare program" ... rest assured, we will continue to have the lowest life expectancy, the highest infant mortality rate, and spend more than any other country on our healthcare.... no big bad ObamaCare is coming to a town near you

Just another poster that doesn't understand the world that they live in.

_____________________________

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 14

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 8:18:57 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I hope someone will post details about the coming government health care program, I know we have had hundreds of threads onhere on the subject of government healthcare.

Unfortunately there is no coming "government healthcare program" ... rest assured, we will continue to have the lowest life expectancy, the highest infant mortality rate, and spend more than any other country on our healthcare.... no big bad ObamaCare is coming to a town near you

Just another poster that doesn't understand the world that they live in.

I wonder, did people read the bill once it was passed, or what?

It was only weak health insurance reform, emphasis on weak

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 15

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 8:28:53 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

Marini complains about "Americans" losing jobs but apparently does not want any steps taken that might make us more competitive by reducing our health care costs thereby allowing us to better compete with the rest of the world.

Instead, lets build a big grey wall.

_____________________________

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 16

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 8:52:19 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Marini complains about "Americans" losing jobs but apparently does not want any steps taken that might make us more competitive by reducing our health care costs thereby allowing us to better compete with the rest of the world.

Instead, lets build a big grey wall.

I want turrets on it, so we can shoot people who are trying to go to Mexico to get cheap prescription drugs.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 17

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 10:16:48 AM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Marini, are you referring to the federal government exclusively?

Ahh Steven, I admit the OP could have been more specific, when I started the OP I was thinking about how MASSIVE the federal government is growing.

State and local governments have been getting squeezed lately. The federal government has been getting squeezed as well but has expanded nonetheless.

Exactly, as many states are having to make cuts almost to the bone, the federal government is growing fat and sassy.
I predict that the federal government will continue to expand, and that the state and local governments will do so at a smaller rate.

Sorry, Steven as a county worker I see cuts, cuts and more cuts at the county level at this time. The majority of the cuts that I see going on all around me in this area {Maryland, DC, and Northern Virginia} are going to decrease the quality of living for the citizens at this time.
With a promise that more cuts may be coming!When I look at the FEDS all I see is massive growth, again at this time.

Thank you Steven, for helping to clarify the points I was attempting to make in my OP.
Good Day to you!

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/28/2010 10:31:50 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 18

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 8:52:07 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

Marini, I expressed myself poorly. I meant that I expect that state and local governments will expand over time, but that there will be ups and downs along the way - not linear expansion.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 19

RE: Why I Believe America's government will continue to... - 7/28/2010 9:10:47 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Marini, I expressed myself poorly. I meant that I expect that state and local governments will expand over time, but that there will be ups and downs along the way - not linear expansion.

As I mentioned before, almost every state that I know of is making drastic cuts at this time.

How in the world will the states be able to expand any time soon, without massive increases in taxes or A LOT of money from the feds?

The money that most states got from the bail outs, is what made the difference last year, but will the states be getting "bail out" money on a semi-permanent basis?

Again, cuts, cuts and more cuts all across the board.

Do you read your local newspaper on a regular basis?
Seriously, the Washington Post has articles every month about almost every major school system in my area making serious cuts in almost every area.
I could type all night about cuts going down at the state level in most counties and in most states.

IMHO, most states are seriously struggling and trying to make it, while the FEDS are getting bigger and fatter every day.

We can always agree to disagree, that is why I enjoy intelligent debate with those that have different opinion.

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/28/2010 9:19:15 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 20

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