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Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 7:41:01 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		From the office used to validate the need for health care. I wonder if our new Land Lords will provide the same entitlements that broke us?

This debt problem is about more than right or left policies, it's about survival. Is someone trying to break this country?

http://cboblog.cbo.gov/

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.
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RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 7:56:39 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		So was(is) the rise in the cost of heathcare.

20 years ago it was about 7% of a family`s budget.

Today it`s about 15 to 20%.

At this rate,in 20 years it will be 40% to 50% of a yearly family budget.

Try and explain how that`s not sustainable and you get one of two reactions.

People`s eyes glaze over or they scream at you that they don`t want death panels!!!!



_____________________________

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RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 8:12:04 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

So was(is) the rise in the cost of heathcare.

20 years ago it was about 7% of a family`s budget.

Today it`s about 15 to 20%.

At this rate,in 20 years it will be 40% to 50% of a yearly family budget.

Try and explain how that`s not sustainable and you get one of two reactions.

People`s eyes glaze over or they scream at you that they don`t want death panels!!!!





I've heard all that before O59, I won't even debate your points, but my questions remain.

1. Is someone trying to break this country?

2. Will our new Land Lords provide the same entitlement programs we have become accustom too?

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 8:20:52 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Land Lords will provide the same entitlements that broke us?



Since their citizens get low cost healthcare, probably

_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 8:28:29 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Since their citizens get low cost healthcare, probably


So you'd sell your freedom for free health care?

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 9:10:24 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Since their citizens get low cost healthcare, probably


So you'd sell your freedom for free health care?


I am making a point about our debt, and one of the things that is holding us back economically speaking, and that is high healthcare cost. I suppose the Chinese can afford to be lending money, their people aren't being bankrupted by healthcare costs

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 9:28:52 AM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		The Federal Law aka ObamaCare was taken after the current Massachusetts Healthcare Law aka RomneyCare
Massachusetts insurance premiums are the highest in the country and increasing at the fastest rate. in the country
Have a look at our situation if you want a peek into your future.

                mbmbn

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When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 9:41:33 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I am making a point about our debt, and one of the things that is holding us back economically speaking, and that is high healthcare cost. I suppose the Chinese can afford to be lending money, their people aren't being bankrupted by healthcare costs


Ok, so we both agree that we need to address the debt, since the CBO says the present health care law will be a main contributer to brealing this country, do you agree Obamacare must be repealed and that Congress should address this issue properly? Availability, Affordability, Reliability and Care Quality.

As far as the Chinese health care system, I'm not rehearsed on what it costs, covers or its care quality, but somehow I doubt the Brits or Canadians will be heading to Bejing for major medical issues anytime soon.

But again, would you really trade your freedom for "low cost" health care?

< Message edited by xBullx -- 7/28/2010 9:42:56 AM >

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 9:48:50 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

The Federal Law aka ObamaCare was taken after the current Massachusetts Healthcare Law aka RomneyCare
Massachusetts insurance premiums are the highest in the country and increasing at the fastest rate. in the country
Have a look at our situation if you want a peek into your future.

               mbmbn


I hear you with this all the time. Rates compared to what? Individual premiums? Company premiums? All insurance companies?

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 9:49:35 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

The Federal Law aka ObamaCare was taken after the current Massachusetts Healthcare Law aka RomneyCare
Massachusetts insurance premiums are the highest in the country and increasing at the fastest rate. in the country
Have a look at our situation if you want a peek into your future.

                mbmbn



Point well taken...

Do you think there is a chance that someone has the intent to break this country? It seems to me common sense would tell our "leaders" that all this wild spending isn't working or helping. That said why do they continue?

< Message edited by xBullx -- 7/28/2010 9:55:22 AM >

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 9:49:58 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		[quote]ORIGINAL: xBullx

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I am making a point about our debt, and one of the things that is holding us back economically speaking, and that is high healthcare cost. I suppose the Chinese can afford to be lending money, their people aren't being bankrupted by healthcare costs


Ok, so we both agree that we need to address the debt, since the CBO says the present health care law will be a main contributer to brealing this country, do you agree Obamacare must be repealed and that Congress should address this issue properly? Availability, Affordability, Reliability and Care Quality.

As far as the Chinese health care system, I'm not rehearsed on what it costs, covers or its care quality, but somehow I doubt the Brits or Canadians will be heading to Bejing for major medical issues anytime soon.

But again, would you really trade your freedom for "low cost" health care?


Can you state clearly why you think it is so important to address the debt?

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 9:53:45 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

do you agree Obamacare must be repealed and that Congress should address this issue properly? Availability, Affordability, Reliability and Care Quality.


I want a socialized system, at least a single payer option. I want to be able to buy into medicare, for example.

I believe that if health insurance companies can't compete with a single payer system this is because they are providing a substandard product at a too high price. I have no problem with them going out of business because we cannot afford to support them at the expense of the rest of society.

My son's generation is the first that has an expected lifespan that will be smaller than the previous one. This to me means we are in crisis as a people, for our very survival

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 10:13:58 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Can you state clearly why you think it is so important to address the debt?


Is this a serious question? If so perhaps you didn't read the latest CBO report, that'll kinda address your question..

Do you want to live in a Third World Country.

Do you own your own house?

Have you ever tried to get a loan without equity?

Do you think capital grows on trees?

You realize the same monetary laws that apply to individuals and business apply to governments?

I'm not sure about this one, but I heard that historically speaking the United States is the only country that has ever forgiven other countries their incurred debts. That said, we aren't borrowing money from ourselves.

Hell simply put don't you believe that increasing debt personally or collectively at a rate that you won't be able to pay back is both selfish and irresponsible?

Shall we go on?

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 10:14:38 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		If I understand XBullx's comment correctly - I think he is asking is there a deliberate attempt to break this country.

I don't know if it's deliberate, I think it's just greed. There has not been such income disparity in the US between the haves and have nots since the 1920's. Hopefully like then (Oct '29) there will be a correction.

If we vote and can't change our government, are we really free anyway?

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One time "Phallus Expert Extraordinaire"

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 10:24:30 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I want a socialized system, at least a single payer option. I want to be able to buy into medicare, for example.


You could move to a country that has that, you seemed impress with China. Maybe Britian, assuming they will still have it, apparently they're also discovering they can't afford to pay this bill either.

Though I will say the girl Istarr described to me the way the Belgium system works and it may be workable, we should at least investigate that, but as the CBO says, we can't afford the law as it is written now.

So no country, no health care. Get my point?

quote:



I believe that if health insurance companies can't compete with a single payer system this is because they are providing a substandard product at a too high price. I have no problem with them going out of business because we cannot afford to support them at the expense of the rest of society.



I agree the system needs fixed, but the present or a more costly idea like you want doesn't seem doable.............so?

quote:



My son's generation is the first that has an expected lifespan that will be smaller than the previous one. This to me means we are in crisis as a people, for our very survival


I suppose that has nothiing to do with a lack of excersize, too many hours at the video games, poor diets or lack of parental control?

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 10:32:50 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

If I understand XBullx's comment correctly - I think he is asking is there a deliberate attempt to break this country.

I don't know if it's deliberate, I think it's just greed. There has not been such income disparity in the US between the haves and have nots since the 1920's. Hopefully like then (Oct '29) there will be a correction.

If we vote and can't change our government, are we really free anyway?



Now we're on track...

I hope you're right. I have my suspicions the other way though.

As far as voting goes, there is more to it than just showing up in November, we must be active and part of the process.

Thanks for a post of the nature I was after..............

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 10:40:37 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

You could move to a country that has that, you seemed impress with China. Maybe Britian, assuming they will still have it, apparently they're also discovering they can't afford to pay this bill either.

Though I will say the girl Istarr described to me the way the Belgium system works and it may be workable, we should at least investigate that, but as the CBO says, we can't afford the law as it is written now.

So no country, no health care. Get my point?


You missed my point, healthcare is bankrupting our people


quote:

I agree the system needs fixed, but the present or a more costly idea like you want doesn't seem doable.............so?


More do-able then what we are currently doing, which is spending more than anyone and getting less than most... talk about an idiotic system

quote:

I suppose that has nothiing to do with a lack of excersize, too many hours at the video games, poor diets or lack of parental control?


Yes, it does, but that does not mitigate that our people already have the lowest life expectancy of any Western nation, the problem promises to get worse as people do not have affordable care for the problems that being inactive and overweight are sure to cause. I am talking solutions here, not the cause of problems which are well known. These obese young people are going to need medical care to help them lose all this weight. They will need preventative care... our medical system isn't equipped to deal with it. If you think your future isn't tied to to theirs, you are sorely mistaken

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 10:47:10 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Can you state clearly why you think it is so important to address the debt?


Is this a serious question? If so perhaps you didn't read the latest CBO report, that'll kinda address your question..

Do you want to live in a Third World Country.

Do you own your own house?

Have you ever tried to get a loan without equity?

Do you think capital grows on trees?

You realize the same monetary laws that apply to individuals and business apply to governments?

I'm not sure about this one, but I heard that historically speaking the United States is the only country that has ever forgiven other countries their incurred debts. That said, we aren't borrowing money from ourselves.

Hell simply put don't you believe that increasing debt personally or collectively at a rate that you won't be able to pay back is both selfish and irresponsible?

Shall we go on?


Sure it is a serious question.

What would actually happen if we defaulted as a country?

Who would stand to lose the most?

I am not arguing against responsibility. And we both know the revenue curve can be changed with tax policy. Or are you one of those who think we should kneel down for the rich so we can get the scraps?

Capital doesn't grow on trees and it isn't the sole respite of the banking system either. Do you suppose the banks are unhappy with the current state of play? Or are they quite content with the status quo? And if they are so happy, why?

I just believe that there are more options than simply telling the whole country that we've got to massively readjust ourselves so that "debt" needs to be lower.








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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 10:52:06 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

If I understand XBullx's comment correctly - I think he is asking is there a deliberate attempt to break this country.

I don't know if it's deliberate, I think it's just greed. There has not been such income disparity in the US between the haves and have nots since the 1920's. Hopefully like then (Oct '29) there will be a correction.

If we vote and can't change our government, are we really free anyway?



Now we're on track...

I hope you're right. I have my suspicions the other way though.

As far as voting goes, there is more to it than just showing up in November, we must be active and part of the process.

Thanks for a post of the nature I was after..............


You're welcome. It's easy to get caught up looking at the minutiae, healthcare, taxes etc, and not see the big picture.

I agree it's more than showing up to vote. We get the government we deserve, I think.


_____________________________



My fave Thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2626198/mpage_1/tm.htm

One time "Phallus Expert Extraordinaire"

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... - 7/28/2010 10:53:32 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		By the way XBullx, do you own any firearms?

_____________________________



My fave Thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2626198/mpage_1/tm.htm

One time "Phallus Expert Extraordinaire"

(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 20
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