Punishment

Punishment (Full Version)

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WeRShe -> Punishment (7/28/2010 3:04:39 PM)
my Mistress and i have talked about punishment. She is reluctant to impose it because i am an adult and should know how to behave without casting her as the enforcer. i understand and agree that i should be responsible. Plus, i think she believes i get off on it. i acknowledge that to some degree i do, but that punishment also reinforces Her authority over me, and reminds me of my limits. i am human and will mess up once in a while, but without occasional consequences for it, i am afraid i may slip more without having that little voice in my head that reminds me i'll pay for my slacking off. Does any one have any thoughts on this?

MercilessMarcy -> RE: Punishment (7/28/2010 3:23:32 PM)
There is a huge difference between punishment and discipline. YOU NEED discipline. She needs to discipline you. Discipline teaches, punishment is punitive. Many many discussions on the boards about this, just search them.

Lockit -> RE: Punishment (7/28/2010 3:24:16 PM)
I have thought's on it, but I am not all that sure you will be glad to hear them. I see the punishment thing as a reactive type of dominance. They do this and I have to do that. They know I have to do that if they do this and it can become a cycle of manipulation worthy of a teenager and frustrated parent. I like my men adult without the need for punishment. He either wishes to please me or he doesn't. I would rather remind him with rewards, on how much I am pleased, than to react to poor relationship skills and bad behavior amounts to that in my mind. That doesn't mean there won't be times when I am unhappy with something he has done and I will set out to correct a behavior I don't want in our relationship, but believe me, it isn't something most would get off to!

ElanSubdued -> RE: Punishment (7/28/2010 3:30:13 PM)
quote: Lockit: I see the punishment thing as a reactive type of dominance. They do this and I have to do that. They know I have to do that if they do this and it can become a cycle of manipulation worthy of a teenager and frustrated parent. I like my men adult without the need for punishment. He either wishes to please me or he doesn't. I would rather remind him with rewards, on how much I am pleased, than to react to poor relationship skills and bad behavior amounts to that in my mind. That doesn't mean there won't be times when I am unhappy with something he has done and I will set out to correct a behavior I don't want in our relationship, but believe me, it isn't something most would get off to! Ditto what Lockit wrote. Elan.

LadyPact -> RE: Punishment (7/28/2010 4:00:01 PM)
Best rule of thumb: There is a difference between punishment and play. I don't need an excuse to play. It is fun, it's at My discretion, and I enjoy it. If I actually have to administer a punishment, there is no way it is being confused with play. It's not fun, something is very seriously wrong, and nobody is having a good time. Make no mistake. If I actually am in the situation where I am punishing someone, there's no confusion that somebody is getting off on it. I specifically choose punishments that fit a consequence for the infraction and ensure that it won't be repeated.

DarkSteven -> RE: Punishment (7/28/2010 5:06:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WeRShe Does any one have any thoughts on this? Yep. You've made your case to her and she made her decision. Live with it.

SthrnCom4t -> RE: Punishment (7/28/2010 5:16:21 PM)
Great advice above. I want a partner invested in our dynamic, not one that thrives at undermining it. If you are seeking a connection that will contribute to your power exchange, perhaps doing something you know she likes, which makes her feel loved, will have her responding in kind? When I feel loved, Otter gets tied up and is the recipient of much sensation. Punishment? NO! Symbolic of my love....ABSOLUTELY! Does he feel the connection and want to cultivate it, you betcha!

ProlificNeeds -> RE: Punishment (7/28/2010 6:51:06 PM)
You want 'play punishment' real punishment is not something you like or want. If you're looking for a specific type of scene or play be upfront about it don't try to mask it behind 'bad behavior and the need for correction'. A real punishment would be "You and I will not have any 'play' time for the next week while you consider what you've done." You, as an adult, have the ability to correct yourself and your own behavior if you're being unfair to your top/partner/whatever. Expecting her to do that for you... is unfair. You're not a child who needs to go to bed without supper... and if you want a spanking? Beg for it like a proper bottom instead of trying to insist it's a required condition.

WeRShe -> RE: Punishment (7/28/2010 9:16:03 PM)
Thank you all for your responses. Someone said i wouldn't like her response. On the contrary, i asked because i wanted learn, not because i wanted validation for a position. i did learn something from Your thoughtful answers. i have changed my original thoughts because because of them. Thank You.

dreamerdreaming -> RE: Punishment (7/28/2010 9:18:29 PM)
What everyone else said. You want to be "kept in line" by her, and she expects you to behave on your own. Seems to me the two of you aren't a very good D/s match, in this regard. I don't do reward/punishment. If I want my boy to suffer for our pleasure, then that's the only reason needed. I would avoid your kind like the plague. If your dom continues on with you, you'll need to adjust accordingly and be obedient of your own volition, or risk losing her. Again, I think you don't fit each other's needs very well in this area- so maybe it wouldn't be much of a loss. Compatibility is important. If you don't have much common desire/need to work with, then you can't expect a very satisfying relationship to just spring forth without a lot of mutual effort and accomodation. And even then, it may not be enough. Square peg+ round hole= frustration.

sweetsub1957 -> RE: Punishment (7/28/2010 9:35:00 PM)
~FR~ I'm not a Domme of course, but I'm putting in my two cents worth anyway. A good submissive/slave should strive to do what the Domme wishes at all times but, of course, once in awhile you'll mess up anyway. Like MercilessMarcy said, there's a difference between discipline and punishment. Discipline is to teach and to help you do better, punishment is punitive and it could be considered like "aversion therapy." You don't want that punishment again so you'll avoid that screw up in the future. So true punishment (not "funishment") should be something you can't stand or don't like at all. If the "punishment" is something you actually like or don't mind, then it can turn into manipulation like Lockit says. If it's something the s-type actually likes, or at the least, doesn't really mind, they can be manipulative so the Domme will do it. I see that as Topping from the bottom, another bad thing in my opinion. Maybe she does think you getting off on the punishment she deals out & manipulating her and that's why she'd rather not do it? Well, that was more than two cents worth, haha. It was more like a trip to the ATM. [;)] ~sweetsub~ ~edited for spelling & punctuation~

peppermint -> RE: Punishment (7/28/2010 11:32:52 PM)
Well....you need to think of punishments you will NOT enjoy. If you enjoy surfing the internet, perhaps a week with no internet will give you that reminder you feel you need. If you are into playing Wii, then no Wii for 2 weeks if that's what trips your trigger. Perhaps you like that triple mocha with whipped cream in the morning. Have her forbid you to have one for a month. Hope you see where this is going. Punishment does not need to be anything you might enjoy in any way. It's just a matter of figuring out what you would hate losing the most. She does not need to enforce her authority over you in ways you enjoy. Best of all, the punishment does not have your Mistress having to DO anything to you that you might enjoy. You can be punished without her lifting one finger.

sweetsub1957 -> RE: Punishment (7/28/2010 11:53:33 PM)
Exactly!!

porcelaine -> RE: Punishment (7/29/2010 8:45:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WeRShe my Mistress and i have talked about punishment. She is reluctant to impose it because i am an adult and should know how to behave without casting her as the enforcer. I agree. You're not a child. quote: i understand and agree that i should be responsible. Plus, i think she believes i get off on it. i acknowledge that to some degree i do, but that punishment also reinforces Her authority over me, and reminds me of my limits. If behavior modification [of this sort] is something you enjoy but a philosophy she doesn't espouse nor practice, why would she engage it at all? quote: i am human and will mess up once in a while, but without occasional consequences for it, i am afraid i may slip more without having that little voice in my head that reminds me i'll pay for my slacking off. Does any one have any thoughts on this? And a part of you enjoys the idea of being corrected. However, there are many methods to address infractions and in my opinion punishment is the result of multiple failures on the disciplinary end. Sometimes the best consequence of all is the door. Unless your dynamic has an undercurrent of willfulness or force that she enjoys applying to keep you in good stead, I would think the answer is pretty evident. In my opinion engaging your desires would set a very bad precedent. A sort of cause and effect that has no benefit for the dominant. Much of this depends on the level of importance she places upon obedience. The latitude is vast and it would appear you desire some reinforcement of her ideals. But that doesn't require correction. It's a matter of conditioning and the realization of the standard and consequences for noncompliance. Obedience is a choice. When your actions reach the point where punishment is a necessity (in your mind) you are consciously agreeing not to obey. Why would you knowingly do something that could impair or erode your dynamic? It's an exchange. If you're "not doing" to elicit a response you're not exchanging in the manner agreed. Is the momentary pleasure worth the reality of your actions? Think about it. ~porcelaine

Chrisincuffs -> RE: Punishment (7/29/2010 9:30:12 AM)
If there is one lesson I can take from CM to make me a better sub is the difference between punishment and play. I enjoy being punished as well, and there was once a time that I would lash out in the specific hopes of a punishment. I've learned since that if I please Master quietly, he is much more likely to reward me in return and if that is a "funishment" then it is imposed as that and something we actually enjoy. I've learned manipulation gets you nowhere in the end, but there's a reason people say "it never hurts to ask"

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Punishment (7/29/2010 10:07:58 AM)
I don't do punishment dynamics unless I have a slave, rather than a sub. My owned property gets treated as I deem fit, and reactions to bad behavior can be swift. In dom/sub relationships, I just don't get into the punishment thing at all. I am an adult, working with other adults. I am not anyone's mommy, and at this point in my life, I am not interested in doing behaviour modification. I might bring up that there was an amazing amount of sass earlier in the day, just as a part of conversation (once a spanko, always a spanko!) but that would be it. What everyone else said about discipline, too. Really, isn't the goal to be pleasing and obedient?

MaamJay -> RE: Punishment (7/30/2010 2:36:26 AM)
I'm totally with the others here. For Me, punishment is: a) a last resort b) a realisation by ME that somewhere along the line I have failed to adequately communicate My requirements and/or failed to sufficiently motivate My sub to be obedient and c) something the sub really will not like or get off on in any way. Therefore it will have nothing to do with any play activities, such as impact play. It will involve My expressing Me great disappointment (often severe in itself if the sub does care about Me and what I think of him), loss of privileges (eg no TV for a week, no crossdressing for a week or whatever he really likes to do) and/or extra chores or tasks. One of the worst ones for many boys is "write a 500 word grammatically correct and coherent essay on why this behaviour was inappropriate and how you will prevent this from recurring" as so many boys HATE writing LOL! It could be that to really make the point, depending on the infraction. the punishment will also involve Me, such as "I feel we have both failed in our commitment to each other. I was going to take you to the bdsm party this weekend so we could play, but we won't be going now, so we'll both miss out." It's certainly not a path I want to take so I am totally with the OPs Mistress in this. Correction, discipline are all good and positive things, punishment, not so. The OP seems to have listened (hooray!) so I hope this response simply further clarifies how and why a Domme thinks this way. Maam Jay aka violet[A]

Madame4a -> RE: Punishment (7/30/2010 4:17:29 AM)
FR I'm pretty much of the same mind as everyone else. If I am punishing anyone, there is something wrong the relationship. Its definitely not the right one for me. I dont care for the reactive and parental way that feels. Submit or don't... I'm ok with either

porcelaine -> RE: Punishment (7/30/2010 9:26:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Really, isn't the goal to be pleasing and obedient? But where's the fun in that? [:D] ~porcelaine

LadyPact -> RE: Punishment (7/30/2010 9:28:01 AM)
Not to mention, it skips over all of those wonderful opportunities to discuss punishment hundreds of times more than it's probably ever applied in a successful dynamic. [;)]

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