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Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/28/2010 6:34:30 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Disclaimer: To be clear, this question isn't focused on being aroused by martial arts, aroused by pain in martial arts, etc. Simply something I noticed while training and am wondering if it relates to my years in BDSM.

I've begun taking Aikido lessons, much fun for me and very different than the styles I've trained in before. The focus being to use a person's limb to control and move them away (I'm sure those more skilled in Aikido on the boards will be able to put that better!). Essentially, twisting of the arm, wrist, etc to move a person how you want/need them.

As part of the training, during particular take-downs, our partners will put pressure on joint till it begins to hurt. When it hurts, we tap the mat with our free hand to signal that we want to be released now. This is where my curiousity comes in.

It's entirely possible that they are going easy on the new girl but I found that I, generally, have to wait awhile before I feel pain. Until then it's just a fairly pleasent stretch - not arousing by any means, just comfortable. I've been described as a painslut. What hurts some feels quite good to me so I'm wondering if that comes into play a bit. Simply that I'm not aroused because it's not a situation where I would be interested in being aroused and so it's just comfortable. Like an affectionate shoulder rub as opposed to a sensual caress.

I'm curious if other subs/slaves/bottoms/*term of choice here* have experieced this in martial arts or perhaps other arenas. I'm also curious to know if dominants/masters/mistresses/*term of choice here* have experienced anything like this.

This is just a point of idle curiousity so I'm not particularly sold either way, if it relates or doesn't.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/28/2010 6:49:01 PM   
Chrisincuffs


Posts: 602
Joined: 12/7/2009
Status: offline 		I do understand what you mean about what others may consider pain to be enjoyable. I've had a bit of training in jiu jitsu and have enjoyed being on certain holds. Not that I got off by someone attempting to pull my arm out of its socket by any means, lol.
I found it similar to certain sensory therapies. I have a lot of experience with autism and some other sensory type disabilities. I've learned that many people in general either prefer light touch or deep touch. I'm guessing you and I as well are more the deep touch people.
Anyway, the whole autism and therapy part. There are types of therapies where putting pressure on joints and using weights (sometimes quite heavy 50-75 lbs) on a person is very calming. Does this make sense?

_____________________________

No kind of sensation is keener and more active than pain it's impressions are unmistakable. -Marquis DeSade

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/28/2010 7:35:28 PM   
lovelyk


Posts: 8
Joined: 6/24/2010
Status: offline 		Well, I haven't done martial arts but I think it definitely applies to dance and my experiences in circus. I used to dance on toe (pointe shoes) and the pain was somehow pleasant. Also, I used to do circus, mostly static trapeze. There are many positions that should hurt or at least be very uncomfortable, but I found them to be quite fine for me, even enjoyable.

I attribute it to my masochistic nature haha.

Not that is that simple, but I find that not only can I get aroused from pain (not in the previously described instances, but when inflicted by an SO), but I can also get gratification or enjoyment from it.

K

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/28/2010 8:40:11 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		My last dom had a third degree black belt in aikido.We discussed pain, martial arts, etc. I will say that I think the lack of resistance I had toward him inflicting pain on me allowed me to go deeper into allowing it to happen. As a masochist I did not resist what he did to me, I "sank" into it (his words). He did know some pressure points, and ways to not only inflict pain, but to mitigate the impact of play when he administered aftercare.

I think martial arts helped him see where my limits were, and not to exceed them. If that makes any sense

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/29/2010 2:18:32 AM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Excellent example! Another perspective is that of physical toughness. Some bodies can simply take more force. For example in many sports, including martial arts, bones become hardened and very dense with many healed microfractures over a very long time. That is how a person can "karate chop" a cinder block without breaking their hand/wrist/arm.

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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/29/2010 2:54:15 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		taking this to a slight tangent...

I only 'discovered' I was a masochist (through play with a sadist) about 8 years ago. Before then, I didn't deal too well with 'ordinary' physical pain.

I started to experience a lot of pain play with my then-partner, and I also started studying tai chi as a means to relax and de-stress from a stressful job. Part of the tai chi training is meditation - visualising and focussing on controlling chi.

Fast forward a year or so of meditating a few times a week and doing tai chi daily, and I found I could 'distance' myself from pain really rather well. I could 'feel it' but not 'experience it', if that makes any sense. As if I was a detached observer to my sensations. The positive sides to this was of course, prolonged play, and I could almost push myself into subspace time after time in a few hour play session.

Another brilliant side was my ability to control my stress and my pain. I did the visualising and the pain management 'thing' in my head when I needed a dental cavity filled, and it was totally painless and stress-free. I left feeling very calm and relaxed instead of stressed and vomiting. I had a broken wrist a few months ago, and needed no pain relief while it was manipulated and put into a cast. I found the pain to be not only bearable, but actually quite interesting and not unpleasant. Again, I had this 'detached from the pain' thing going on.

It's likely (from discussions with my tai chi sensei and with my GP) that I've actually been doing a form of deep relaxation bordering on self-hypnosis. But I don't think I would be able to control the pain so much if I hadn't been practising the meditation stuff alongside almost accidentally using the meditation to deal with pain play.

Sorry if it's a bit of a rambling post, but it's something I've been thinking about for some time (great timing for the post, Aqua!) and I'm still working through my thoughts on the subject



_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk


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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/29/2010 3:17:15 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

Excellent example! Another perspective is that of physical toughness. Some bodies can simply take more force. For example in many sports, including martial arts, bones become hardened and very dense with many healed microfractures over a very long time. That is how a person can "karate chop" a cinder block without breaking their hand/wrist/arm.


Would you mind terribly if I transferred my pain to you every time I punch the bejasus out of a 1" timber board (no not pine either) to vent my frustration about something?  

You all know I'm neither slave not sub (Those who don't will learn soon enough I dare say), but when my late Sensei was walking this earth, I still trained with him regularly. He healed my wounds and hurts and at times the cure was worse than the original injury but I kept good heraslth and a high degree of fitness. When I erred in my intent, failed to focus completely or just made a mistake of judgement in a training bout with another student, I was painfully reminded with a blow from his bamboo staff or a 6' length of willow (highly flexible) landing across my shoulders and legs.  I'm no masochist (Not really) but the pain from injuries or his "Reminders" made me work harder and smarter. I rarely noticed the injuries including broken bones when in combat with him or another student. After, yes but at the time, I suppressed it, cultivated the pain to be my friend to guide my actions and learned to deal with it later on. Pain, mine or another's,  for me has never been a sexual turn on, rather the reverse indeed.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to aldompdx)
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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/29/2010 8:50:19 AM   
blackbelt


Posts: 10
Joined: 6/6/2005
Status: offline 		i have been in martial arts since i was 15, it really has to do with body mechanics, and everyone is built differently, generally the larger the person the more pain they feel in locks, and also have much less flexibility. A thinner person as i am has much more rotational movement so would take a greater rotation of movement in a lock.
I can take great pressure on my shoulders and legs, but locks on my wrists are very painful, so a wrist lock would throw me easially.
simple body mechanics and knowing the week spots of your opponent will do it every time

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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/29/2010 9:03:49 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I have tried using the (for lack of more standard phrasing) Nikajo (inside wrist lock) on some big old boys built like refrigerators with no effect.  Not on all of them, of course. Even placing my free hand on the elbow to drop it down.......so, in those cases, push/pull and let them slide by, or coathanger.   

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/29/2010 9:19:05 AM   
blackbelt


Posts: 10
Joined: 6/6/2005
Status: offline 		On Bigger guys I usally place there wrists on my chest and step forward as soon as the clich i pull the wrist and wrench there arms , using my body weight to take them down

works every time, ist all in the techenque

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/29/2010 9:24:35 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		yeah, fine from a front grab, but out of the air or off your arms, hard to do unless you do a (what I call hapkido flowerpot) and I dont like having the back of my hand towards my chest when I pick it off, rather than my palm, with the big boys. 

Remember also that I am advanced in age, and dont like fucking with all that weight.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to blackbelt)
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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/29/2010 9:39:54 AM   
Chrisincuffs


Posts: 602
Joined: 12/7/2009
Status: offline 		When did this turn into a "how to" thread? I thought it was
quote:

Disclaimer: To be clear, this question isn't focused on being aroused by martial arts, aroused by pain in martial arts, etc. Simply something I noticed while training and am wondering if it relates to my years in BDSM.

I've begun taking Aikido lessons, much fun for me and very different than the styles I've trained in before. The focus being to use a person's limb to control and move them away (I'm sure those more skilled in Aikido on the boards will be able to put that better!). Essentially, twisting of the arm, wrist, etc to move a person how you want/need them.

As part of the training, during particular take-downs, our partners will put pressure on joint till it begins to hurt. When it hurts, we tap the mat with our free hand to signal that we want to be released now. This is where my curiousity comes in.

It's entirely possible that they are going easy on the new girl but I found that I, generally, have to wait awhile before I feel pain. Until then it's just a fairly pleasent stretch - not arousing by any means, just comfortable. I've been described as a painslut. What hurts some feels quite good to me so I'm wondering if that comes into play a bit. Simply that I'm not aroused because it's not a situation where I would be interested in being aroused and so it's just comfortable. Like an affectionate shoulder rub as opposed to a sensual caress.

I'm curious if other subs/slaves/bottoms/*term of choice here* have experieced this in martial arts or perhaps other arenas. I'm also curious to know if dominants/masters/mistresses/*term of choice here* have experienced anything like this.

This is just a point of idle curiousity so I'm not particularly sold either way, if it relates or doesn't.


_____________________________

No kind of sensation is keener and more active than pain it's impressions are unmistakable. -Marquis DeSade

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/29/2010 9:56:05 AM   
blackbelt


Posts: 10
Joined: 6/6/2005
Status: offline 		that's the beauty of Martial arts, you learn so many techniques, you use what works best for you, you discern what would work best on your opponent, this comes with experience, for example i would never use a round house to ones head who's taller and bigger than me or if i have blue jeans on, best thing would be to take out his knees, job done.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/29/2010 4:09:29 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline 		I'm not into pain, but I am a black belt in karate and I enjoyed every single second of my training OH SO MUCH. My teachers were always extremely fit, ethically powerful men, and I was almost always used as the example in take downs and such. Probably it was obvious I enjoyed it

I actually think karate (of any kind) is a fantastic sport for those into D/s, since you get to play with a fairly heavy dose of power and control while learning very valuable self-protection skills.

(in reply to blackbelt)
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RE: Pain endurance, BDSM and martial arts - 7/30/2010 2:24:12 PM   
Nehemiah


Posts: 70
Joined: 6/21/2010
Status: offline 		I've had a similar situation. I was in a hapkido class and the instructor was demonstrating pressure points for a take-down. I could see in his eyes that he was expecting me to react to the pain but didn't want to break a joint by increasing the pressure. It was probably more difficult for him than for me.

So I understand what you are saying.

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 15
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