Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 10:35:02 AM)

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/07.10/rainwater.html

so how then do you own your yard/house?




mnottertail -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 10:39:28 AM)

States rights. Rain falls in states. Even if the article is out of round. (as in dee do dee do, twilight zone).




maybemaybenot -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 10:46:36 AM)

Uhhh Ohhh ! Next thing you know the will outlaw us from making snow ice creme.
LOL, or better yet, pay taxes on the snow.

                      mbmbn




DesFIP -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 10:51:24 AM)

If you read the article, this is about 2500 gallons which is one hell of a cistern. I imagine the law is more because of the weight of that water and wanting to know it is being properly stored.

Rain water in an open container breeds mosquitoes. If it's coming off a roof and then put on a garden you could well be poisoning yourself depending on what your shingles are made of. Selling plants grown on toxic water and poisoning others certainly should not be encouraged. And if it's a roof cistern, then you better know that your roof will support the weight.




E3 -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 10:54:39 AM)

In response to DesFip.. would it not make more sense then, to regulate the collection of rainwater, instead of ban it?

Create an insepction agency (creating jobs) to certify a water collection setup as safe for individual or minor commercial use.  Of course certification would cost, and enable it to be taxed if its being used for commercial purposes.  So money making possibilities here without infringing on the rights of people to provide their own food and water.

Dont tell people NOT to do it. tell them instead, how to do it safely.

edit to add:
the 2500 gallon cistern was an ammendment to the law. the fact that these places still tried to ban water collection, and now are being "generous" in allowing you to collect a limited amount, does not negate that it is still limiting your rights to provide for yourself.

and the cistern issue, doesnt even change that people are elsewhere, still under threat of arbitrarily being denied the right to farm their own land, even for self use.

the government makes no money off you growing your own food and collecting your own water.  it makes no taxes. corporations make no money, so they put pressure on politicians.




pahunkboy -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 10:55:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If you read the article, this is about 2500 gallons which is one hell of a cistern. I imagine the law is more because of the weight of that water and wanting to know it is being properly stored.

Rain water in an open container breeds mosquitoes. If it's coming off a roof and then put on a garden you could well be poisoning yourself depending on what your shingles are made of. Selling plants grown on toxic water and poisoning others certainly should not be encouraged. And if it's a roof cistern, then you better know that your roof will support the weight.



You make some good points.

I seen people get those fake ponds- then fail to upkeep them. So- the mosquito thing is a problem.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 5:12:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: E3

In response to DesFip.. would it not make more sense then, to regulate the collection of rainwater, instead of ban it?



PA is another one not to take seriously. Because he links to conspiracy sites that say its banned doesnt mean it is.




pahunkboy -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 5:17:25 PM)

Tax the water?


I already pay a water bill.   How dumb.




popeye1250 -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 5:20:42 PM)

PaHunk, should I empty out the ashtray that's full of water?
Sheesh! What's next, no more DDT?




pahunkboy -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 5:22:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

PaHunk, should I empty out the ashtray that's full of water?
Sheesh! What's next, no more DDT?


we better check to see if it is legal.   


--- and taxable.




thompsonx -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 7:47:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If you read the article, this is about 2500 gallons which is one hell of a cistern. I imagine the law is more because of the weight of that water and wanting to know it is being properly stored.

Rain water in an open container breeds mosquitoes. If it's coming off a roof and then put on a garden you could well be poisoning yourself depending on what your shingles are made of. Selling plants grown on toxic water and poisoning others certainly should not be encouraged. And if it's a roof cistern, then you better know that your roof will support the weight.




If you had watched the video in the link you would know that none of the positions you take are valid. The video is quite clear that the state considers rainwater to belong to the state and the collection of rainwater by an individual is stealing from the state.
This begs the question: If you are a farmer and it rains on your crop how much do you owe the state?




thornhappy -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 8:18:23 PM)

Are they worried about aquifer charging?  That's about the only reason I can see for the state to be interested in it, other than the structural issues pointed out above.




rulemylife -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 8:29:53 PM)

Get some help.




SorceressJ -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 8:32:12 PM)

Big Brother is watching.. your water?
WTF..[8|]




rulemylife -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 8:32:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

If you had watched the video in the link you would know that none of the positions you take are valid. The video is quite clear that the state considers rainwater to belong to the state and the collection of rainwater by an individual is stealing from the state.
This begs the question: If you are a farmer and it rains on your crop how much do you owe the state?



Come on.

Are you going down the golden path to conspiracyland too?




rulemylife -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 8:36:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SorceressJ

Big Brother is watching.. your water?
WTF..[8|]


The latest news is the government is going to be requiring toilet monitors.







thornhappy -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 8:47:47 PM)

Ah HAH!!  No wonder some stores are importing them there Japanese hi-tech toilets that do everything but wipe your butt!  I bet they are hiding RFIDs or even a Wi-fi node in them!!




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 9:11:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Are they worried about aquifer charging?  That's about the only reason I can see for the state to be interested in it, other than the structural issues pointed out above.


You're pretty close to the mark; but man, it's hard to have a rational and productive discussion about any topic that originates in one of these loony conspiracy sites, and in an article that ends with a frothmouthed rant about tyranny, and slavery, and citizens not having the right to breathe the air, and all the other customary conspiracy babble.

I don't know the exact origins of the Utah law regarding the storage of rainwater, but I think I can hazard a reasonably educated guess on the reasons most of the Western states have laws on the storage and diversion of water. And they're actually very good reasons, no matter what the conspiracy idiots on those websites think.

I'm guessing here, but I'm willing to bet that almost all of these laws are rooted in the water wars in the Colorado River Basin back around the turn of the 20th Century. As the American Southwest became increasingly agriculturalized, the water in the Colorado - which was essentially the only practical source for water in the entire Southwest - quickly became more precious than gold, and the states the Colorado drained and through which it flowed had to draw up an agreement on how much water each state was entitled to, and how much water each state had to leave in the river as it flowed out of their state and into the next. I think Mexico was even involved in the treaty, but I don't recall that for sure. There were similar interstate agreements made between states in the Pacific Northwest, like Idaho, Montana, Washington, and I think Oregon, but I think the Colorado River agreement was first, and certainly far more comprehensive and influential.

The result of these agreements was that the amount of water that  individuals or corporations could divert from watersheds, and the amount of rainwater that they could store, had to be strictly regulated by each state in order to ensure that they were in compliance with the agreement. These were perfectly valid and sensible laws, not to mention extremely complicated and intricate - and oddly enough they had nothing to do with tyranny or slavery or legislating who can breathe and who can not. Or any of that other silly-assed conspiracy bullshit. It was just a way to make sure that an absolutely vital and very finite resource was fairly shared by everyone in the region, otherwise you could have had Colorado damming up the entire river and selling the water to Arizona.

The only thing that I'm curious about is where they got this "2500 gallon" figure. It's been many years since I read anything about this issue, but from what I recall, the storage limits on rainwater was often in the thousands of acre-feet per year - many times more than 2500 gallons. I don't know where that 2500 gallon thing is coming from, but that seems awfully small to me.




Arpig -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 9:29:03 PM)

The 2500 gallon tank is for underground tanks...so the structural issue is a non-starter...the limit for above ground tanks is 200 gallons




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection (7/30/2010 9:36:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: SorceressJ

Big Brother is watching.. your water?
WTF..[8|]


The latest news is the government is going to be requiring toilet monitors.


That's the good news. The bad news is, they're putting Larry Craig in charge of the whole operation.




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