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RE: an excuse to punish - 4/19/2006 6:38:54 AM   
MLskajira


Posts: 275
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline 		thank Y/you  everyone, this has been most informative.
please continue.


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(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/20/2006 7:17:23 AM   
LoganStrange


Posts: 34
Joined: 4/13/2006
Status: offline 		I just want to thank all of you for these posts, I have been trying to explain this concept to those new in the lifestyle who ask me questions about it, and though I never claim to be an expert, there have been times when I thought I was alone in these concepts.
Thank you collarme.com for showing me I am not alone in my thoughts.

(in reply to MLskajira)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/20/2006 12:37:56 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Punishment implies some type of wrongdoing.  If a dom "made up" reasons to punish, well, how is his sub ever going to know what he wants?

(in reply to alex311)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/21/2006 3:42:59 PM   
WikedUncle


Posts: 45
Status: offline 		Damn cheek of me to follow John Warren, but here's my take.

Having to "punish" or be "punished" seems to be something of a rationalisation, one of those things people think they need to do or ought to do to get to a state of erotic bliss. I've been very fortunate in recent years to have partners who are as delighted to receive pain as I am to give it. In such a relationship, one needs no excuses.

There are many of these psychological crutches that help people move beyond their vanilla selves and get in touch with the nature that cries out inside them. They are OK as long as they are transitional,  not ends in themselves. The place to aim for is the one at which you no longer need to think in terms of "punishment"  at all, and can even smile as you look back and understand that you once looked at the world in much the same way. You want to avoid those who are unwilling to move beyond. That suggests less maturity than one should bring to such relationships.

Hoping you can both move ahead...




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(in reply to MLskajira)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/21/2006 4:04:08 PM   
SirLordTrainer


Posts: 820
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Indy
Status: offline 		To Me, punishing for made up reasons is not only ridiculous but dangerous. My girl has learned full well what to do in regards to pleasing Me and seeing to My needs. However, if she does make a misjudgement in her service I would first prompt her verbally, if it happens again then will I punish. Making certain the punishment fits the infraction.

(in reply to MLskajira)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/21/2006 4:08:48 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I think shakey egos need reasons to punish. it makes them feel powerful,or something along that line......"I will because I can.."

Punishing is something you do with criminals and small children-I'd hope my partner was neither.

(in reply to MLskajira)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/21/2006 6:34:00 PM   
sensualkiten


Posts: 9
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline 		Honestly i think there is a difference between punishment and discipline. i have in my years of service to various friends and potential romantic  partners not ever once been punished that i can recall. i have been in a variety of abusive situations were anything unpleasant had more to dowith their issues then me having done anything wrong.and have as part of my learning curve walked away from some situations and stopped serving while remaining family or friends. one Dominant once posed a question to my Dominant about punishment and He said in reply " i dont ever have to punish her. none of her mistakes are malicious."  I havent ever done anything so bad that i have to be punished.

what i run into most is the discipline factor. i guess i require discipline on a fairly regular basis.not usually for disrespect to anyone else.  most discipline is for not eating well similar issues.

and i second the vote of any submissive that says that spankings are not punishment. they arent.to me they are part of discipline.  a spanking or caning or what have you is a forgiveness, a cleansing, a healing, a gesture that tells me i am safe and protected and loved. being isolated or knowing that i have hurt my DOminant is the true punishment.

a spanking is sometimes something that helps me let go of the issue. and sometimes its a method of discipline to change behavior.

oftentimes though it is the desire not to displease that changes my behavior. i dont think gee i dont want to do X because He will paddle the hell out of my ass. I think oh God i dont wish to do that again becuase it made him upset and i feel so badly.

the paddling just keeps it from lasting in my heart until heck freezes over and allows me to move on. :)

but then one of my biggest issues in this life has not been consideration for others it has been self forgiveness and self care. also i grew up with out being spanked so instead i got the guilt trip. or i basically disciplined myself all the time. i lived like a small adult and handled my own business.

you all may be different and have a different background.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/21/2006 6:58:01 PM   
pgqosk


Posts: 22
Joined: 4/19/2006
Status: offline 		I think the word punishment automatically means there has been an infraction of some sort. To have an infraction, there needs to be steadfast rules in place that can be broken in some way. I think if you have gone to the extent of establishing rules, then you have a relationship that is based on structure. So the next logical thing would be that if you are making up infractions to punish your sub.... your are not following the rules you established.

So, you have broken trust, and you have broken protocol... who really needs the punishment here? Also, what kind of relationship is this??

Now this all in mute if your are just doing some role playing game. Then it is all imaginary.

Steven--

(in reply to MLskajira)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/21/2006 7:17:18 PM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline 		I suppose it would be entirely subjective to the dynamic in your relationship. I find it very pointless to discipline or punish anyone who is not aware of his or her trespass (or f-up). However, when they earn those stripes, hell will shudder and utter sighs of relief that it was not they tied to the tree.



Loki
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Submission is not a gift… it is plunder!

(in reply to pgqosk)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/21/2006 8:15:26 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		I have always maintained that submissive people are not children in need of correction.  They are adults and should be treated as such.  The sheer number of dominants who litter their profiles with phrases such as, "infractions will be harshly dealt with..." is, to me, staggering. 

From my journal and my 360...a post concerning punishment:

Knowing is Enough



I choose to be different.  I choose to make my own path through "the lifestyle" and not accept what others continuously ram down the throats of others as what is correct. There are those that will say that BDSM has nothing to do with a couple who love each other...and for many, it doesn't.  For others, power exchange only occurs when there is emotional attachment.  It boggles my mind, to think of power exchange without attachment. 


 
One of the greatest mysteries to me is how the notion began that adult women and men, though submissive, need and should be "corrected" as if they are children.  Personally, all that will happen is that you will anger me.  A LOT.  Which will only serve to create resentment in me and not the thing at all that a couple looks to achieve. I do want to know when I've not been pleasing, in whatever way it is, but the knowing is enough. 


 


It is enough to make me deeply ashamed and sorrowful, not to mention embarrassed.  It is enough to put me in tears and worry if I will be able to make it up or if you will always be angry or displeased with me.  It's enough to make me nervous, it's enough to weigh on my mind.  It is...quite simply...enough.

(in reply to Wulfchyld)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/22/2006 12:31:31 PM   
alovelypet


Posts: 35
Joined: 4/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:


I'll tease a partner about getting punished, but actual punishment is no fun for any one of us.


i definitely agree with that statement.  If a Master/Mistress wants to inflict pain just because it pleases them, they they should be honest enough to just say that to their sub/slave/toy.  Afterall, being honest with your partner is one of the cornerstones of any D/s relationship. 

Just my humble opinion,
alovelypet

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/22/2006 3:50:45 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

I have always maintained that submissive people are not children in need of correction.   I do want to know when I've not been pleasing, in whatever way it is, but the knowing is enough.  

It is enough to make me deeply ashamed and sorrowful, not to mention embarrassed.  It is enough to put me in tears and worry if I will be able to make it up or if you will always be angry or displeased with me.  It's enough to make me nervous, it's enough to weigh on my mind.  It is...quite simply...enough.


Would you agree that "letting you know" is a form of correction?
 
Level

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/22/2006 4:32:45 PM   
CERCKL


Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Would you agree that "letting you know" is a form of correction?

It is an element of correction...and dicussing, communication, perhaps asking to write and figure out motives for action are ways of looking at and seeking understanding. When I mention an element I was not pleased with, I've had that focused on longer than needed; not meant to 'punish' rather to direct...control. Then I get faced with another who feels they're not worthy (cynical nod to Wayne's World) and that isn't the point either...I do not seek imaginary means to control, nor do I seek imaginary justifications to inflict physical pain...I enjoy spanking, whipping, caning, clamping etc and I enjoy the reaction from another who enjoys receiving this type of stimuli, I find it accentuates a lot more with in the dynamic...guess I'm just boring and not into the role-play as much as certain activities because I derive satisfaction from them...

C

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RE: an excuse to punish - 4/22/2006 5:48:23 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		No, I wouldn't.  Just communication.  How else am I supposed to know, if I'm not told?

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/23/2006 4:42:04 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

No, I wouldn't.  Just communication.  How else am I supposed to know, if I'm not told?


I understand that, for you, correction is something  you do to children, and I believe that you wish your submission to be seen and known as that of a woman, an adult. Which I respect. But I would see it as correction, not of a child, but of a woman. Ahh, the Semantics Tango *smiles*.
 
Level

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/23/2006 5:25:47 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

No, I wouldn't.  Just communication.  How else am I supposed to know, if I'm not told?


I understand that, for you, correction is something  you do to children, and I believe that you wish your submission to be seen and known as that of a woman, an adult. Which I respect. But I would see it as correction, not of a child, but of a woman. Ahh, the Semantics Tango *smiles*.
 
Level


And ain't that the purpose of the boards, when ya get right down to it? 

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/23/2006 7:27:52 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

No, I wouldn't.  Just communication.  How else am I supposed to know, if I'm not told?


I understand that, for you, correction is something  you do to children, and I believe that you wish your submission to be seen and known as that of a woman, an adult. Which I respect. But I would see it as correction, not of a child, but of a woman. Ahh, the Semantics Tango *smiles*.
 
Level


And ain't that the purpose of the boards, when ya get right down to it? 


Noooooooo feastie, the purpose is to get everyone to see how right I am ...
 

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/23/2006 7:49:05 AM   
cariad


Posts: 943
Joined: 9/25/2004
From: Calgary, Alberta
Status: offline 		*rubs sleepy eyes once again* good grief girl needs to learn to avoid reading first thing in the morning....lol

seriously though, girl has been "punished" for disobedience, disrespect, not eating or not eating properly, not writing in her blog/journal, not getting enough sleep. the list goes on but there have been times she has been disciplined as well and that list also goes on forever or at least what seems like forever.

one instance of being disciplined is: girl was doing a serve, and she missed a step in her serve that normally she would not miss, so Dom X decided to correct her before she continued. He came over to her, grabbed her hair, she whimpered slightly, then He whispered in her ear, "I think you forgot something My pet, didn't you?"

immediately girl knew what she had forgotten and started her serve over and didn't miss any steps along the way, later was rewarded for accepting the correction appropriately and making Him proud of her in front of His friends. 

another instance is when girl was doing another serve with another Dom that her former Master allowed her to serve, again she missed an important step and was told about it later by both of Them, then given a lecture (it felt like a lecture) about the importance of taking one's time and making sure things are done right in order to please Them. she was given a verbal reprimand if you will about it having happened twice within a month and told that the next time she would be punished.

knowing that girl had disappointed Them was all she needed to know what is and is not acceptable. that feeling of butterflies flitting in her tummy is enough to let her know oh boy are you in for it now girlie and in for it good.

that is all the punishment girl needs is those butterflies, however that is not to say she hasn't been punished severely as she has been. the look of disappointment on His face or the tone of His voice has often times been enough to put girl into tears for having failed to please Him.

if a Dominant needs to make up reasons to punish, girl would say as she is sure has been said before....."it is their lack of self esteem or self worth, the lack of assurance that they can trust the sub/slave in their care to know when they have done wrong."

just girl's opinion though......

Blessed Be


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The Path To Being A Good slave Takes Hard Work, A Willingness To Learn, Ability To Take Criticism and the Ability To Take Punishments Well. i Am Still Learning So Please Be Patient With me, As i Walk the Path to Being A good slave. SLRN: 742 958 000

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/23/2006 7:54:48 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

No, I wouldn't.  Just communication.  How else am I supposed to know, if I'm not told?


I understand that, for you, correction is something  you do to children, and I believe that you wish your submission to be seen and known as that of a woman, an adult. Which I respect. But I would see it as correction, not of a child, but of a woman. Ahh, the Semantics Tango *smiles*.
 
Level


And ain't that the purpose of the boards, when ya get right down to it? 


Noooooooo feastie, the purpose is to get everyone to see how right I am ...
 



Well, that just won't work, because I'm right.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: an excuse to punish - 4/23/2006 4:29:45 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		BDSM is a reward in my house. I have tried to use corporal for infractions, but after calculating the results have dismissed it as ineffective.
 
But when I did use it it was always for infractions that the boy was told about beforehand, I think its lame bordering on abuse to punish some one for doing something they did not know was an infraction.

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This is him

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(in reply to alex311)
Profile   Post #: 40
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