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Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going to ... - 8/2/2010 11:33:16 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		French workers at GM plant in France, voted to agree to give up their annual bonuses, 6 days of vacation, any salary increases for the next 3 years, and to gradually eliminate 200 jobs through retirement, in order to keep the plant from moving to Mexico.

These "givebacks' are designed to reduce production costs by 10% and again, keep the plant from moving to Mexico.

By agreeing to give up part of their vacation time, these french workers are giving up part of the lavish social benefits that many workers in France enjoy.

I think its great that the workers have been able to save their plant and keep their jobs.
As stated in the article in the Washington Post, these french workers are writing a chapter of history related to the global economic crisis.

At least the workers in France were given a chance to save their jobs, before the plants closed and moved to Mexico, interesting story.

http://Aug 1, 2010 ... Sunday, August 1, 2010. STRASBOURG, FRANCE -- A group of French ... the vote marked a sobering retreat and a recognition that things are not ...

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/3/2010 12:24:55 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/2/2010 11:44:16 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		The EU and France in particular are recognizing the fiscal nightmare that the extant social policies have caused. Its a shame our Administration insists on following the same downward path and learn for itself, instead of learning from the mistakes of others.

(in reply to Marini)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 12:06:26 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The EU and France in particular are recognizing the fiscal nightmare that the extant social policies have caused. Its a shame our Administration insists on following the same downward path and learn for itself, instead of learning from the mistakes of others.

Nothing new here except that it was France. What's Mexico ? Workers that much closer to slaves.

Unions giving back is the long 30 year struggle for capital's continuing impoverishment of labor all around the world unless you are being paid so little...you just go ahead and kill yourself like in China.

The only thing Obama has failed to realize, is how many $/hr it takes to prevent suicide, a dead slave being worthless and that at least...slaves had jobs. Live slaves that is.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 12:41:50 AM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-shocks-and-awes-france-workers-surrender/

This link works! Really!
Workers surrender, times they are a changing.

Great post Mr. Rodgers, nice to see you around.
Next, maybe the workers will agree to work for about $2 a day, than they will be able to compete with China.

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/3/2010 12:48:24 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 1:16:07 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Good story Marini. I especially like this quote,

“Do we have the choice?” asked Jean-Marc Ruhland, a union leader who advocated for acceptance of the concessions, “This is not a victory….but I’d rather take my pants down a little than end up totally naked in front of the employment agency”.

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(in reply to Marini)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 10:31:36 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers



The only thing Obama has failed to realize, is how many $/hr it takes to prevent suicide, a dead slave being worthless and that at least...slaves had jobs. Live slaves that is.



Maybe he should look to the 40 countries with a higher suicide rate than the US, including France, Switzerland and Finland.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 4:40:15 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Simple logic tells us outsourcing and slave wages do not really work in long term perspective. Who can afford to buy the goods?  There is a well known story about Henry Ford ~100 years ago who started paying his workers twice the market wages and his business became a great success. The World goes around.
We see just the first signs of the system collapsing. We have PIIGS in Europe and COMA states in the US. (COMA stands for California, Oregon, Michigan, Arizona).
Surprising phenomenon is how the governments, the economists, the big corporations and the mainstream news media are jointly executing this scam.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 5:06:35 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Simple logic tells us outsourcing and slave wages do not really work in long term perspective. Who can afford to buy the goods?  There is a well known story about Henry Ford ~100 years ago who started paying his workers twice the market wages and his business became a great success. The World goes around.
We see just the first signs of the system collapsing. We have PIIGS in Europe and COMA states in the US. (COMA stands for California, Oregon, Michigan, Arizona).
Surprising phenomenon is how the governments, the economists, the big corporations and the mainstream news media are jointly executing this scam.



Nice Henry Ford reference, too bad you dont understand the real reason behind what he did.


"Whether that was Henry's greatest contribution is questionable. Less uncertain is what his primary motivation was in raising employee wages and reducing work hours.

It wasn't, as has been argued, because he wanted to establish a solid-middle class to buy his product. Nor was it an act of charity. In the magnate's own words, it was "one of the finest cost-cutting moves we ever made."

Henry Ford was acting in his company's best interests. His factories had been plagued with very high turnover rates and excessive absenteeism. This was to be expected. Almost all jobs (at least the ones I've had) are monotonous, but assembly line work, performing the same procedure over and over all day long, must be extraordinarily tedious. Many employees looked for, and found, better alternatives.

Hiring replacement workers and training them were too expensive. Something needed to be done.

The higher wage Ford offered made the jobs much more attractive. Morale shot up, employee turnover sharply dropped, and, most important from management's perspective, productivity surged. Henry Ford was on his way to being a billionaire."


Who can afford to buy the goods? Anyone who's talents and abilities earn them a wage that will allow them to afford it.

What logic should actually tell you is that if you add 33% to the cost of a product (because you doubled wages that initially represented about 1/3 of the total cost) you have indeed made the product more affordable for the few thousand workers in your factory. You have also priced out millions out of the tens of millions in your potential market that is working at their actual market value. The only way doubling the wage makes sense is the reason Ford did it...to reduce the overall cost of the product through retention and productivity from morale.

(in reply to Fellow)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 5:08:13 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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Status: offline 		would they play both sides against the middle?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 5:19:00 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The EU and France in particular are recognizing the fiscal nightmare that the extant social policies have caused. Its a shame our Administration insists on following the same downward path and learn for itself, instead of learning from the mistakes of others.


What utter nonsense. I havent seen anyone in the EU blaming socialism for the current financial state. Everyone pins the blame squarely on the sub prime mortgages and easy credit. No doubt you would love your B/s to hold a grain of truth to show social policies in a bad light.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 5:56:53 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		The article states that the workers gave the concessions in return for job security but fails to mention what the GM commitment was.

The real fun will happen from the other French workers who will be terrified to see the good times begin to stop rolling, and will begin pressuring the GM workers.


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Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 6:32:15 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The EU and France in particular are recognizing the fiscal nightmare that the extant social policies have caused. Its a shame our Administration insists on following the same downward path and learn for itself, instead of learning from the mistakes of others.


Yes, indeed. Why can't the EU and France model their economies after Mexico?

God knows we will if Presnit Palin has her way.


Edited to add:

Why is it that when conservatives are speaking about immigration, Mexico is a hellish 3rd World hellhole, filled with savage baby-rapers and stinking poverty?
But when talking about economic activity, why, Mexico is the "Land O' Opportunity, the Shining City on A Hill"!

< Message edited by AnimusRex -- 8/3/2010 6:34:20 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 6:45:44 PM   
THELADY


Posts: 116
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		years ago (25 -/+) I remember chatting w/friends and wondering how long it would take unions to price themselvea out of their jobs.

the reason we have the best economy is capitalism, not unions.

Obama's most frequent visitor to the white house is a union leader stein....or is it sunstein?

the european's are retreating while our govt and unions lead us into the pit euro is retreating from.......

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 8:55:26 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Simple logic tells us outsourcing and slave wages do not really work in long term perspective. Who can afford to buy the goods?  There is a well known story about Henry Ford ~100 years ago who started paying his workers twice the market wages and his business became a great success. The World goes around.
We see just the first signs of the system collapsing. We have PIIGS in Europe and COMA states in the US. (COMA stands for California, Oregon, Michigan, Arizona).
Surprising phenomenon is how the governments, the economists, the big corporations and the mainstream news media are jointly executing this scam.


Thanks for your informative and useful contribution, you certainly give people something to THINK about.
COMA, that's what's up.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Fellow)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 9:26:11 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The EU and France in particular are recognizing the fiscal nightmare that the extant social policies have caused. Its a shame our Administration insists on following the same downward path and learn for itself, instead of learning from the mistakes of others.


Yes, indeed. Why can't the EU and France model their economies after Mexico?

God knows we will if Presnit Palin has her way.


Edited to add:

Why is it that when conservatives are speaking about immigration, Mexico is a hellish 3rd World hellhole, filled with savage baby-rapers and stinking poverty?
But when talking about economic activity, why, Mexico is the "Land O' Opportunity, the Shining City on A Hill"!


Any country in which corporations can find able bodied, willing workers, willing to work for next to nothing, is a shining opportunity!
You have to love Capitalism and all the wonderful joys of this global economy.
We are on the road now, to enjoying the joys of the "global economy" all over the world.

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/3/2010 9:28:18 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 9:39:49 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		Or I could ask-
Why is it that moving a factory to Mexico is just good ol' capitalism, but moving the Mexican workers here is the destruction of our nation??

(in reply to Marini)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 9:42:37 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Or I could ask-
Why is it that moving a factory to Mexico is just good ol' capitalism, but moving the Mexican workers here is the destruction of our nation??


I can't answer this except to say, both political parties/Capitalism seem to encourage/both practices.
Isn't that what has been going on for some time now?

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/3/2010 9:44:08 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 9:48:03 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The EU and France in particular are recognizing the fiscal nightmare that the extant social policies have caused. Its a shame our Administration insists on following the same downward path and learn for itself, instead of learning from the mistakes of others.


Yes, indeed. Why can't the EU and France model their economies after Mexico? this certainly isnt responsive to anything I wrote.




Edited to add:

Why is it that when conservatives are speaking about immigration, Mexico is a hellish 3rd World hellhole, filled with savage baby-rapers and stinking poverty?
But when talking about economic activity, why, Mexico is the "Land O' Opportunity, the Shining City on A Hill"!

Why dont you link us to some conservatives who say that.


(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 9:53:20 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Or I could ask-
Why is it that moving a factory to Mexico is just good ol' capitalism, but moving the Mexican workers here is the destruction of our nation??



Hmmmm...maybe because (ignoring your hyperbolic misrepresentation in the second half) they are both true? You see, capitalism in a world of redistribution of wealth at least demands that the workers that are imported are documented, above the table, and actually contribute toward the economy who's resources they consume.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Workers at GM plant in France keep plant from going... - 8/3/2010 10:13:38 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

The higher wage Ford offered made the jobs much more attractive. Morale shot up, employee turnover sharply dropped, and, most important from management's perspective, productivity surged. Henry Ford was on his way to being a billionaire."


Who can afford to buy the goods? Anyone who's talents and abilities earn them a wage that will allow them to afford it.


Thanks for pointing out my misinterpretation. Still, the higher wages certainly had general beneficial (side) effects to the community as a whole. Actual manual labor in making things is rather small percentage of the cost. I heard a number ~10%  for car manufacturing (I am not sure about the correctness here). I think the corporations push wages down unreasonably too far (greed knows no boundaries). As talents and abilities are concerned, the possibilities are limited. How many celebrity bloggers, dog psychologists, credit monitors and so on we need? The trend is clearly visible: the increasing number of "have nots".

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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