RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever

RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (Full Version)

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Marini -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 4:38:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda I didn't say that. You seem to be alluding that United States is not spending major money on illegal immigrants and their children. {WIC, free education, thousands of teachers for ESL classes, free lunch programs, all sorts of programs, maternity care, medical care, housing, shelter, emergency shelter, and programs that I haven't even heard of, etc.} I just found out they can get medicaid, wow.

Trekkie -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 4:48:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy I think the goal is to have them pay in with out collecting. They already are. What has been proposed is for illegals who become citizens to be eligible to collect SS benefits based on what they paid in.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:04:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda I didn't say that. You seem to be alluding that United States is not spending major money on illegal immigrants and their children. {WIC, free education, thousands of teachers for ESL classes, free lunch programs, all sorts of programs, maternity care, medical care, housing, shelter, emergency shelter, and programs that I haven't even heard of, etc.} It depends on how you define "major money." Illegals probably have a net cost to the American taxpayer of around $10 billion a year - which is about $10 billion more than I'd like them to cost, but when you consider that it's about .3% of the federal budget, I'm not going to have a panic attack over it. It's money we shouldn't have to be spending, but that doesn't mean it's going to bankrupt the country. quote: ORIGINAL: Marini I just found out they can get medicaid, wow. What? Where are you getting this? That's just not true. Are you reading the same websites as PA? Except for emergency services, it's against federal law. You might want to look for some different websites there, Mz. Mia!

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:09:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekkie quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy I think the goal is to have them pay in with out collecting. They already are. What has been proposed is for illegals who become citizens to be eligible to collect SS benefits based on what they paid in. Yes, they are already paying in - by some estimates, as much as between $10 and $15 billion a year in both state and federal taxes and federal social security.

Marini -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:13:19 PM)
okay mr. pandabear, lol, I will give you this one, for now.

Musicmystery -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:15:09 PM)
quote: They already are. What has been proposed is for illegals who become citizens to be eligible to collect SS benefits based on what they paid in. Citizens collecting benefits based on what they paid in -- i.e., based on their SS wages, which is what determines SS taxes. Yup. That's how it works. Why wouldn't it for citizens? Otherwise, they wouldn't really be citizens, would they.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:29:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda I didn't say that. You seem to be alluding that United States is not spending major money on illegal immigrants and their children. {WIC, free education, thousands of teachers for ESL classes, free lunch programs, all sorts of programs, maternity care, medical care, housing, shelter, emergency shelter, and programs that I haven't even heard of, etc.} It depends on how you define "major money." Illegals probably have a net cost to the American taxpayer of around $10 billion a year - which is about $10 billion more than I'd like them to cost, but when you consider that it's about .3% of the federal budget, I'm not going to have a panic attack over it. It's money we shouldn't have to be spending, but that doesn't mean it's going to bankrupt the country. quote: ORIGINAL: Marini I just found out they can get medicaid, wow. What? Where are you getting this? That's just not true. Are you reading the same websites as PA? Except for emergency services, it's against federal law. You might want to look for some different websites there, Mz. Mia! the $10 billion is only net direct costs, it doesnt include free medical, added crime and those costs, etc.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:31:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: They already are. What has been proposed is for illegals who become citizens to be eligible to collect SS benefits based on what they paid in. Citizens collecting benefits based on what they paid in -- i.e., based on their SS wages, which is what determines SS taxes. Yup. That's how it works. Why wouldn't it for citizens? Otherwise, they wouldn't really be citizens, would they. Since they arent using real SS numbers now, they arent paying anything in. If they go to the back of the line, come back in and attain citizenship then they are citizens. There wouldnt be any need for a law change.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:33:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda I didn't say that. You seem to be alluding that United States is not spending major money on illegal immigrants and their children. {WIC, free education, thousands of teachers for ESL classes, free lunch programs, all sorts of programs, maternity care, medical care, housing, shelter, emergency shelter, and programs that I haven't even heard of, etc.} It depends on how you define "major money." Illegals probably have a net cost to the American taxpayer of around $10 billion a year - which is about $10 billion more than I'd like them to cost, but when you consider that it's about .3% of the federal budget, I'm not going to have a panic attack over it. It's money we shouldn't have to be spending, but that doesn't mean it's going to bankrupt the country. quote: ORIGINAL: Marini I just found out they can get medicaid, wow. What? Where are you getting this? That's just not true. Are you reading the same websites as PA? Except for emergency services, it's against federal law. You might want to look for some different websites there, Mz. Mia! the $10 billion is only net direct costs, it doesnt include free medical, added crime and those costs, etc. Not according to the CBO.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:34:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: They already are. What has been proposed is for illegals who become citizens to be eligible to collect SS benefits based on what they paid in. Citizens collecting benefits based on what they paid in -- i.e., based on their SS wages, which is what determines SS taxes. Yup. That's how it works. Why wouldn't it for citizens? Otherwise, they wouldn't really be citizens, would they. Since they arent using real SS numbers now, they arent paying anything in. If they go to the back of the line, come back in and attain citizenship then they are citizens. There wouldnt be any need for a law change. And that one, I completely agree with. Start from scratch when you become a citizen.

domiguy -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:35:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy the $10 billion is only net direct costs, it doesnt include free medical, added crime and those costs, etc. So, wilbur....please show your source for the above statement....please show what are the costs for free medical, added crime and "those costs"....Whatever that is supposed to mean? I would like a source. You are a proven liar. In the future, please document your claims by providing a reputable source.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:41:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda I didn't say that. You seem to be alluding that United States is not spending major money on illegal immigrants and their children. {WIC, free education, thousands of teachers for ESL classes, free lunch programs, all sorts of programs, maternity care, medical care, housing, shelter, emergency shelter, and programs that I haven't even heard of, etc.} It depends on how you define "major money." Illegals probably have a net cost to the American taxpayer of around $10 billion a year - which is about $10 billion more than I'd like them to cost, but when you consider that it's about .3% of the federal budget, I'm not going to have a panic attack over it. It's money we shouldn't have to be spending, but that doesn't mean it's going to bankrupt the country. quote: ORIGINAL: Marini I just found out they can get medicaid, wow. What? Where are you getting this? That's just not true. Are you reading the same websites as PA? Except for emergency services, it's against federal law. You might want to look for some different websites there, Mz. Mia! the $10 billion is only net direct costs, it doesnt include free medical, added crime and those costs, etc. Not according to the CBO. Link? the most compehensive CBO report did not even attempt to set a net annual cost and spent most of the time explaining why its so difficult to determine.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:43:05 PM)
You, asking me for a link? Look it up yourself.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:46:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda You, asking me for a link? Look it up yourself. I did. Couldnt find one. No surprise there.

Brownsugasub69 -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 5:49:52 PM)
what happened to social security? It's in the red?

Trekkie -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 6:06:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Since they arent using real SS numbers now, they arent paying anything in. If they go to the back of the line, come back in and attain citizenship then they are citizens. There wouldnt be any need for a law change. Yes, many of them are. The ones who are using fake SSNs are having taxes and SS withheld from their paychecks. Now, the ones that are getting paid under the table aren't. But my gut feeling is that very few of them are being paid that way. Because if the illegal employer pays them under the table, then he can't pull the "gee, I thought they were legal!" line of BS, if he gets caught.

AnimusRex -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 6:40:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro Illegal immigrants do not pay into Social Security and at last count it was estimated there were 11 million of them, with the number continuing to grow. Imagine 11 million plus more on Social Security without contributing. What makes you think they don't pay into the system? The ones who I personally know do. They just accept the fact they wil never receive their contributions back.

AnimusRex -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/6/2010 6:50:04 PM)
I wonder if anyone has done a study comparing the "cost" of illegals- i.e., the medical care, the public assistance....against the wage benefit we all receive. If a guy works for a year making $6 per hour instead of say, $14.00 per hour, that amounts to around $32,000 in lost wages. Who benefits from that? His employer, and all the consumers. Multiply that out by 12 million, and compare that to the hysterical "costs" associated with treating him when he gets sick and goes to the ER. I am surprised someone at the American Enterprise Institute hasn't made the argument that if we deprive American corporations of these low cost workers, they will ouotsource the industries to Mexico. Why are goods and capital allowed to flow freely across the border, but not labor? Why is this the singular instance in which the alleged "free market" not allowed to operate freely?

Musicmystery -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/7/2010 8:17:49 AM)
I also wonder how many of those screaming "bankruptcy" (and SS still has an almost 3 trillion dollar surplus--which the US borrowed) have ever read their SS benefits estimate? Given what I've paid and what my employers paid (which, after all, was paid on my behalf, and is part of my compensation package) combined, and given what I and they will still pay in, whether I retire at 67 or 70, it will still take about ten years just to collect that money back. Then it's a matter of how long and whether I live past 77/80. But wait--we haven't figured in any interest on all that money for decades! Even at modest rates, say, 5%, this would more than double that benefit pool. Now I'm at 87/90. But wait! We haven't accounted for inflation yet--I'm getting back 21st century dollars for more more expensive 20th century payments. A 1980 dollar, for example, is worth $2.57 in 2009 dollars--and I've still got a ways to go until retirement! This again more than doubles the pool. Now I'm funded through age 107/110 plus. And the same is true for you, as your benefits and payments are determined by the same percentages and formulas as mine. That SS is going to run itself bankrupt is just bull. It doesn't matter how many workers there are per retirees. You paid for it. Collect it.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever (8/7/2010 10:46:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery I also wonder how many of those screaming "bankruptcy" (and SS still has an almost 3 trillion dollar surplus--which the US borrowed) have ever read their SS benefits estimate? Given what I've paid and what my employers paid (which, after all, was paid on my behalf, and is part of my compensation package) combined, and given what I and they will still pay in, whether I retire at 67 or 70, it will still take about ten years just to collect that money back. Then it's a matter of how long and whether I live past 77/80. But wait--we haven't figured in any interest on all that money for decades! Even at modest rates, say, 5%, this would more than double that benefit pool. Now I'm at 87/90. But wait! We haven't accounted for inflation yet--I'm getting back 21st century dollars for more more expensive 20th century payments. A 1980 dollar, for example, is worth $2.57 in 2009 dollars--and I've still got a ways to go until retirement! This again more than doubles the pool. Now I'm funded through age 107/110 plus. And the same is true for you, as your benefits and payments are determined by the same percentages and formulas as mine. That SS is going to run itself bankrupt is just bull. It doesn't matter how many workers there are per retirees. You paid for it. Collect it. A garbled analysis at best. The underlying math is that a low paid unmarried worker, after taking into account inflation, life expectancy etc receives benefits that represent about a 2-5% rate of return on his contributions. If he's married that goes up to about 4-7% Someone always earning at the SSWB, if unmarried, basically breaks even, if married receives a return of about 2-3%. The failure of most articles that analyze the return is that they neglect the cost of spousal benefits and automatic disability benefit coverage.

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