Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 4:38:52 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I didn't say that. 


You seem to be alluding that United States is not spending major money on illegal immigrants and their children. {WIC, free education, thousands of teachers for ESL classes, free lunch programs, all sorts of programs, maternity care, medical care, housing, shelter, emergency shelter, and programs that I haven't even heard of, etc.}

I just found out they can get medicaid, wow.

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/6/2010 4:42:08 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 4:48:09 PM   
Trekkie


Posts: 40
Joined: 5/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I think the goal is to have them pay in with out collecting.  



They already are. 

What has been proposed is for illegals who become citizens to be eligible to collect SS benefits based on what they paid in. 

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:04:49 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I didn't say that. 


You seem to be alluding that United States is not spending major money on illegal immigrants and their children. {WIC, free education, thousands of teachers for ESL classes, free lunch programs, all sorts of programs, maternity care, medical care, housing, shelter, emergency shelter, and programs that I haven't even heard of, etc.}


It depends on how you define "major money." Illegals probably have a net cost to the American taxpayer of around $10 billion a year - which is about $10 billion more than I'd like them to cost, but when you consider that it's about .3% of the federal budget, I'm not going to have a panic attack over it. It's money we shouldn't have to be spending, but that doesn't mean it's going to bankrupt the country.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
I just found out they can get medicaid, wow.


What? Where are you getting this? That's just not true. Are you reading the same websites as PA? Except for emergency services, it's against federal law. You might want to look for some different websites there, Mz. Mia!


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:09:37 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekkie

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I think the goal is to have them pay in with out collecting.  



They already are. 

What has been proposed is for illegals who become citizens to be eligible to collect SS benefits based on what they paid in. 



Yes, they are already paying in - by some estimates, as much as between $10 and $15 billion a year in both state and federal taxes and federal social security.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Trekkie)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:13:19 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		okay mr. pandabear,

lol, I will give you this one, for now.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:15:09 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

They already are.

What has been proposed is for illegals who become citizens to be eligible to collect SS benefits based on what they paid in.


Citizens collecting benefits based on what they paid in -- i.e., based on their SS wages, which is what determines SS taxes.

Yup. That's how it works. Why wouldn't it for citizens?

Otherwise, they wouldn't really be citizens, would they.

(in reply to Trekkie)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:29:57 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I didn't say that. 


You seem to be alluding that United States is not spending major money on illegal immigrants and their children. {WIC, free education, thousands of teachers for ESL classes, free lunch programs, all sorts of programs, maternity care, medical care, housing, shelter, emergency shelter, and programs that I haven't even heard of, etc.}


It depends on how you define "major money." Illegals probably have a net cost to the American taxpayer of around $10 billion a year - which is about $10 billion more than I'd like them to cost, but when you consider that it's about .3% of the federal budget, I'm not going to have a panic attack over it. It's money we shouldn't have to be spending, but that doesn't mean it's going to bankrupt the country.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
I just found out they can get medicaid, wow.


What? Where are you getting this? That's just not true. Are you reading the same websites as PA? Except for emergency services, it's against federal law. You might want to look for some different websites there, Mz. Mia!




the $10 billion is only net direct costs, it doesnt include free medical, added crime and those costs, etc.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:31:13 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

They already are.

What has been proposed is for illegals who become citizens to be eligible to collect SS benefits based on what they paid in.


Citizens collecting benefits based on what they paid in -- i.e., based on their SS wages, which is what determines SS taxes.

Yup. That's how it works. Why wouldn't it for citizens?

Otherwise, they wouldn't really be citizens, would they.


Since they arent using real SS numbers now, they arent paying anything in. If they go to the back of the line, come back in and attain citizenship then they are citizens. There wouldnt be any need for a law change.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:33:03 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I didn't say that. 


You seem to be alluding that United States is not spending major money on illegal immigrants and their children. {WIC, free education, thousands of teachers for ESL classes, free lunch programs, all sorts of programs, maternity care, medical care, housing, shelter, emergency shelter, and programs that I haven't even heard of, etc.}


It depends on how you define "major money." Illegals probably have a net cost to the American taxpayer of around $10 billion a year - which is about $10 billion more than I'd like them to cost, but when you consider that it's about .3% of the federal budget, I'm not going to have a panic attack over it. It's money we shouldn't have to be spending, but that doesn't mean it's going to bankrupt the country.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
I just found out they can get medicaid, wow.


What? Where are you getting this? That's just not true. Are you reading the same websites as PA? Except for emergency services, it's against federal law. You might want to look for some different websites there, Mz. Mia!




the $10 billion is only net direct costs, it doesnt include free medical, added crime and those costs, etc.


Not according to the CBO.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:34:28 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

They already are.

What has been proposed is for illegals who become citizens to be eligible to collect SS benefits based on what they paid in.


Citizens collecting benefits based on what they paid in -- i.e., based on their SS wages, which is what determines SS taxes.

Yup. That's how it works. Why wouldn't it for citizens?

Otherwise, they wouldn't really be citizens, would they.


Since they arent using real SS numbers now, they arent paying anything in. If they go to the back of the line, come back in and attain citizenship then they are citizens. There wouldnt be any need for a law change.


And that one, I completely agree with. Start from scratch when you become a citizen.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:35:25 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

the $10 billion is only net direct costs, it doesnt include free medical, added crime and those costs, etc.


So, wilbur....please show your source for the above statement....please show what are the costs for free medical, added crime and "those costs"....Whatever that is supposed to mean?

I would like a source. You are a proven liar.

In the future, please document your claims by providing a reputable source.

_____________________________



(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:41:26 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I didn't say that. 


You seem to be alluding that United States is not spending major money on illegal immigrants and their children. {WIC, free education, thousands of teachers for ESL classes, free lunch programs, all sorts of programs, maternity care, medical care, housing, shelter, emergency shelter, and programs that I haven't even heard of, etc.}


It depends on how you define "major money." Illegals probably have a net cost to the American taxpayer of around $10 billion a year - which is about $10 billion more than I'd like them to cost, but when you consider that it's about .3% of the federal budget, I'm not going to have a panic attack over it. It's money we shouldn't have to be spending, but that doesn't mean it's going to bankrupt the country.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
I just found out they can get medicaid, wow.


What? Where are you getting this? That's just not true. Are you reading the same websites as PA? Except for emergency services, it's against federal law. You might want to look for some different websites there, Mz. Mia!




the $10 billion is only net direct costs, it doesnt include free medical, added crime and those costs, etc.


Not according to the CBO.



Link? the most compehensive CBO report did not even attempt to set a net annual cost and spent most of the time explaining why its so difficult to determine.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:43:05 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		You, asking me for a link? Look it up yourself. 

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:46:30 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

You, asking me for a link? Look it up yourself. 


I did. Couldnt find one. No surprise there.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 5:49:52 PM   
Brownsugasub69


Posts: 53
Joined: 3/22/2007
Status: offline 		what happened to social security? It's in the red?

< Message edited by Brownsugasub69 -- 8/6/2010 5:59:49 PM >

_____________________________

Too fine 4 u.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 6:06:47 PM   
Trekkie


Posts: 40
Joined: 5/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Since they arent using real SS numbers now, they arent paying anything in. If they go to the back of the line, come back in and attain citizenship then they are citizens. There wouldnt be any need for a law change.


Yes, many of them are. 

The ones who are using fake SSNs are having taxes and SS withheld from their paychecks. 

Now, the ones that are getting paid under the table aren't. 

But my gut feeling is that very few of them are being paid that way.  Because if the illegal employer pays them under the table, then he can't pull the "gee, I thought they were legal!" line of BS, if he gets caught. 


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 6:40:12 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
Illegal immigrants do not pay into Social Security and at last count it was estimated there were 11 million of them, with the number continuing to grow. Imagine 11 million plus more on Social Security without contributing.


What makes you think they don't pay into the system?

The ones who I personally know do. They just accept the fact they wil never receive their contributions back.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/6/2010 6:50:04 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		I wonder if anyone has done a study comparing the "cost" of illegals- i.e., the medical care, the public assistance....against the wage benefit we all receive.

If a guy works for a year making $6 per hour instead of say, $14.00 per hour, that amounts to around $32,000 in lost wages. Who benefits from that? His employer, and all the consumers. Multiply that out by 12 million, and compare that to the hysterical "costs" associated with treating him when he gets sick and goes to the ER.

I am surprised someone at the American Enterprise Institute hasn't made the argument that if we deprive American corporations of these low cost workers, they will ouotsource the industries to Mexico.

Why are goods and capital allowed to flow freely across the border, but not labor? Why is this the singular instance in which the alleged "free market" not allowed to operate freely?

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/7/2010 8:17:49 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I also wonder how many of those screaming "bankruptcy" (and SS still has an almost 3 trillion dollar surplus--which the US borrowed) have ever read their SS benefits estimate?

Given what I've paid and what my employers paid (which, after all, was paid on my behalf, and is part of my compensation package) combined, and given what I and they will still pay in, whether I retire at 67 or 70, it will still take about ten years just to collect that money back. Then it's a matter of how long and whether I live past 77/80.

But wait--we haven't figured in any interest on all that money for decades! Even at modest rates, say, 5%, this would more than double that benefit pool. Now I'm at 87/90.

But wait! We haven't accounted for inflation yet--I'm getting back 21st century dollars for more more expensive 20th century payments. A 1980 dollar, for example, is worth $2.57 in 2009 dollars--and I've still got a ways to go until retirement! This again more than doubles the pool. Now I'm funded through age 107/110 plus.

And the same is true for you, as your benefits and payments are determined by the same percentages and formulas as mine.

That SS is going to run itself bankrupt is just bull. It doesn't matter how many workers there are per retirees. You paid for it. Collect it.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever - 8/7/2010 10:46:25 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I also wonder how many of those screaming "bankruptcy" (and SS still has an almost 3 trillion dollar surplus--which the US borrowed) have ever read their SS benefits estimate?

Given what I've paid and what my employers paid (which, after all, was paid on my behalf, and is part of my compensation package) combined, and given what I and they will still pay in, whether I retire at 67 or 70, it will still take about ten years just to collect that money back. Then it's a matter of how long and whether I live past 77/80.

But wait--we haven't figured in any interest on all that money for decades! Even at modest rates, say, 5%, this would more than double that benefit pool. Now I'm at 87/90.

But wait! We haven't accounted for inflation yet--I'm getting back 21st century dollars for more more expensive 20th century payments. A 1980 dollar, for example, is worth $2.57 in 2009 dollars--and I've still got a ways to go until retirement! This again more than doubles the pool. Now I'm funded through age 107/110 plus.

And the same is true for you, as your benefits and payments are determined by the same percentages and formulas as mine.

That SS is going to run itself bankrupt is just bull. It doesn't matter how many workers there are per retirees. You paid for it. Collect it.




A garbled analysis at best.

The underlying math is that a low paid unmarried worker, after taking into account inflation, life expectancy etc receives benefits that represent about a 2-5% rate of return on his contributions. If he's married that goes up to about 4-7%

Someone always earning at the SSWB, if unmarried, basically breaks even, if married receives a return of about 2-3%.

The failure of most articles that analyze the return is that they neglect the cost of spousal benefits and automatic disability benefit coverage.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Social Security in the red for first time ever Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.141