Global Dimming (Full Version)

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MsMacComb -> Global Dimming (4/19/2006 12:31:49 AM)

Anyone watch the PBS special earlier tonight? Any thoughts?




MistressDREAD -> RE: Global Dimming (4/19/2006 12:55:14 AM)

[8|]TV ?? wHo tHe BuNk HaS tImE tO wAtCh ThE tElLiE ? Dammit MacComb now IIIIIIII wanna know what the hell was on PBS about the dimming of the globe!!! ( alltho even My tired Ass could kind of figgure out what it was all about by the name....)




MsMacComb -> RE: Global Dimming (4/19/2006 1:09:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

[8|]TV ?? wHo tHe BuNk HaS tImE tO wAtCh ThE tElLiE ? Dammit MacComb now IIIIIIII wanna know what the hell was on PBS about the dimming of the globe!!! ( alltho even My tired Ass could kind of figgure out what it was all about by the name....)
 

Not much really. Just the death of your children, your grandchildren, your planet, oh and of little consequence YOU! [:)] Joking,,,,well maybe.




MistressDREAD -> RE: Global Dimming (4/19/2006 1:20:46 AM)

LMBAO!  [;)]   sO Whats new ? Last I heard We all going to hell in a handbasket anyhoo..............Maybe You forgot WE ALTERNATE LIFESTYLERS!!![:-]




RiotGirl -> RE: Global Dimming (4/19/2006 9:39:09 PM)

Didnt see the show either, i'm with Misstress Dread on this one too, but its more out of a lack of not interested in TV.  So are you going to explain or what?  Is the sun getting darker or something?  Will it explode and we will all die?  i thought we were just going to ruin our ozone layer and basically burn ourselves to death.  Or as a dream told me, i thought we would end up polluting the planet and using up its resources until at such time it was unlivable.  We'll die a slow agonizing death as our planet has.  Slowly unable to breathe the air, unable to drink the water, too much trash.  Yes, in the dream there was trash everywhere..




FangsNfeet -> RE: Global Dimming (4/19/2006 11:44:07 PM)

PBS has become nothing more but propaganda bullshit making millions of dollars at the tax payers expense. It's time for the P in PBS to becomes Private. I'm sure my taxes can go toward better things. If PBS is so good, surely it can compete with all the other networks without any problems making profit.




NeedToUseYou -> RE: Global Dimming (4/20/2006 12:24:42 AM)

I saw or hmmm, downloaded it  a while back I think I still have it, don't have cable anymore.

It's pretty compelling evidence really, it actually explains alot of the reasons global warming hasn't become apparent thus far.

The premise is that the particle pollution has caused less sunlight to reach the surface of the earth. This is documented worldwide, and isn't scientific theory. They were able to prove this using pan evaporation rates. It's pretty basic really, it's just how much water evaporates from a pan in a day. This has been tracked for decades, today less water evaporates from the pan than it had in the 60's, which implies there is less energy being transferred to the water. That's the first evidence.
Second, Scientist in the US, russia, Israel, just the ones I remember from the show. Have recorded and measured sunlight intensity periodicly over the last 50 or so years. They do this in order to plan irrigation projects as a means to predict water needed etc... Going back to the measurements in the 50's -60's there is about a 10% reduction in overall sunlight reaching the surface. This is also the exact amount of sunlight reduction that would account for the evaporation reduction in the pan evaportation rate. So two long-term scientifc measurements, spread among several countries around the world show the same data. Third after 9/11 when the planes were grounded it was the first time most air traffic was shut down and just those particles being removed from the equation raised the average temperature range for the day a few degrees compared to comparable conditions previous years.

Why is this caused. Well, it turns out that particles in pollution like smog and jet engine emissions etc.. once inside clouds cause the clouds to become more reflective, because they cause the natural formation of the rain drops to become much larger than if it naturally occurred. Usually rain drops begin by forming around dust or pollen. When water bonds with the pollution particles the drops tend to get larger. Overall effect is since it takes longer for water droplets to drop from the clouds, there are more clouds, and clouds reflect light back into space.

So the conclusion is that the Global dimming effect has been offsetting the Global warming effect to a large degree. It's pretty conclusive beyond any other documentary or evidence I've seen anyway. The show also goes into how the Amazon rain forest also has been acting as a Carbon reserve, if you measure the Carbon based gases entering the rain forest versus the air exiting. The rainforest is actually holding on to way more carbon than it releases due to vegetation dying and decomposing. In total the rainforest is absorbing 50 percent of excess carbon based gas production we are releasing. obviously the rain forest can't become denser and denser forever. Once the rain forest reaches it's capacity to absorb more carbon(become more dense). Then they speculate that it will be a dramatic shift in climate as twice as much carbon based gases will remain in the air. Adding that to the fact that we are cutting down the rainforest, it doesn't paint a pretty picture.

So, the conclusion is two factors are suppressing the effects of Global warming. 1 global dimming. 2. The fact that the rainforest is absorbing way more carbon based gases than previously thought. The rainforest will reach it's limit within the next 50 years, once that happens a spike should occur in global temps, raising the temp of the frozen depths of the ocean just a couple of degrees and releasing huge deposits of methane gas. These gases are the worst green house gases raising temps further. Once that happens, you can't stop it.

I thought the whole green house debate was pretty much crap before these explanation actually backed by real data. However, seeing the data and explanations, and the reason for the suppression of temps. It is really concerning me now. Not much we can do except abandon fossil fuels immediately and protect the rain forest which isn't going to happen anytime soon. The timeline  for this to occur is within most of our lifetimes to so I guess we'll know if it's bullshit or not.






Arpig -> RE: Global Dimming (4/20/2006 12:49:26 AM)

ummmm....burning fossil fuels and cutting down the rain forests is causing global warming, but burning fossil fuels and cutting down the rain forests is causing global dimming, which in effect cancels out the effects of global warming????????
Errr yup, makes sense alright...sounds like really good science to me [:-]




Rule -> RE: Global Dimming (4/20/2006 1:36:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

Yes, in the dream there was trash everywhere...

May be symbolic, but symbolic of what? Ah, I see. I have now read some of your profile and journal. The dream analysis is correct, kajira. The vampires probably symbolize normal people sucking you up. You are a fun girl, RiotGirl, and your master an excellent match. 

Excellent exposé, NTUY.
If the climate indeed suddenly switches to another state the world and especially humanity is in big trouble. Polar and mountain ice will melt. Billions of people may and will die suddenly from floods, storms and failed harvests. People living in the uplands will probably be safest.




RiotGirl -> RE: Global Dimming (4/20/2006 4:05:37 AM)

quote:

May be symbolic, but symbolic of what? Ah, I see. I have now read some of your profile and journal. The dream analysis is correct, kajira. The vampires probably symbolize normal people sucking you up. You are a fun girl, RiotGirl, and your master an excellent match.


oh my.  Thank you.  i'm glad you enjoyed my profile and journal.  i did, oddly get alot vampire dreams and they are always trying to take over the world and i am always caught up in the middle of it trying NOT to be a vampire.

Thank you.




NeedToUseYou -> RE: Global Dimming (4/20/2006 12:03:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

ummmm....burning fossil fuels and cutting down the rain forests is causing global warming, but burning fossil fuels and cutting down the rain forests is causing global dimming, which in effect cancels out the effects of global warming????????
Errr yup, makes sense alright...sounds like really good science to me [:-]


The particles in the pollution causes more clouds to form reflecting more light back into space. covering up the effect of Global warming due to decreased sunlight reaching the surface. However, that is only temporary, as the Green House Gases still build and eventually overtake the effect of Global dimming, at which point the change occurs quickly.

Like I said I was against the whole global warming thing to. But at least I'm open minded enough to look into it. Look it up yourself, better than half understanding the concept and ridiculing it because of a paradox(in your mind) of logic. It's pretty simple one effect(Global dimming) covers the effect of the other(Global Warming) for awhile. But since the Greenhouse gases accumulate and the main method of absorbing these gases(rain forest) is reduced with time, Global Dimming won't counter the effect forever or even very much longer for that matter.

Thanks, a bit snarky today aren't we.




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