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GOP Uses Creative Stats To Push Bush Tax Cuts (VIDEO) - 8/6/2010 2:17:17 AM   
Brain


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It's absolutely true. There is no low to which neocons won't sink in order to justify their next tax cut.



GOP Uses Creative Stats To Push Bush Tax Cuts (VIDEO)

Republican leaders are finding increasingly creative ways to justify their support for extending the Bush tax cuts for Americans making over $250,000 per year. The latest tack is to claim that their opposition to allowing the tax cuts to expire at the end of the year is all in the name of supporting small businesses.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/04/gop-uses-creative-stats-t_n_671094.html






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RE: GOP Uses Creative Stats To Push Bush Tax Cuts (VIDEO) - 8/6/2010 9:04:33 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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Actually the problem is in the thinkprogress analysis, and they are the ones using misleading statistics. Here are the main two claims in the article:

"Less than two percent of the small businesses in the country make enough money to file in either of the top two tax brackets McConnell mentions. But that hasn't stopped House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) from piling on."

This is true, but meaningless. "Small businesses" includes 10s of thousands of people who make part time income from things like Amway, Ebay and other spending money sources. and file Schedule C so they can write off expenses. So the percentage of Schedule C filers in the top two brackets is small. The real issue is how much INCOME is being drained from the private economy, and that is exactly what McConnell was talking about and the study shows....50% of small business income is in the top two tax brackets, as they tacitly agree in their next sentence, but then throw in more bs.

"The statistics comes from a Joint Committee on Taxation report which states that 50 percent of business income is in the top two tax brackets. But the report does not suggest these numbers implicate small businesses. "

Again, true but meaningless. What is being discussed? INDIVIDUAL INCOME TAX RATES, and with regard to small businesses SCHEDULE C INCOME. Now, what "non-small businesses" are not incorporated and file Schedule C? Damn few that have net income in the top two rates.

Who are these small businesses that are in the top two rates? Primarily doctors, lawyers and consulting specialists in various fields. The group that probably re-invests the largest percentage of their net income back into the economy. Plus they employ large numbers of support staff, on average 2-3 employees or outside vendors per individual.

Improve your sources.





< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 8/6/2010 9:07:31 AM >

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RE: GOP Uses Creative Stats To Push Bush Tax Cuts (VIDEO) - 8/6/2010 9:26:51 AM   
mnottertail


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well, if they have support staff, employees and outside vendors, that reduces income.

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RE: GOP Uses Creative Stats To Push Bush Tax Cuts (VIDEO) - 8/6/2010 9:29:01 AM   
Hanscuff18


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I'm just curiousl...if renewing the Bush tax cuts will create jobs and lower the deficit how come we lost so many jobs in the first place?

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RE: GOP Uses Creative Stats To Push Bush Tax Cuts (VIDEO) - 8/6/2010 9:34:06 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

well, if they have support staff, employees and outside vendors, that reduces income.


Yes, so whats your point? They are still NETTING in the top two brackets AND they are providing jobs that further stimulate the economy. Thats why Romer and Romer's study result in a 3x multiplier for tax cuts/increases.

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RE: GOP Uses Creative Stats To Push Bush Tax Cuts (VIDEO) - 8/6/2010 9:35:14 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanscuff18

I'm just curiousl...if renewing the Bush tax cuts will create jobs and lower the deficit how come we lost so many jobs in the first place?



The business cycle exacerbated by the financial crisis. Nothing at all to do with fiscal or monetary policy.

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RE: GOP Uses Creative Stats To Push Bush Tax Cuts (VIDEO) - 8/6/2010 9:40:54 AM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanscuff18

I'm just curiousl...if renewing the Bush tax cuts will create jobs and lower the deficit how come we lost so many jobs in the first place?



Largely because stupid people were lending money to stupid people.

It's easy to blame avaricious bankers, and they do bare some responsibility. So do the folks who bought a house that they could never afford or borrowed 125% of an inflated equity.

But that is another thread.

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RE: GOP Uses Creative Stats To Push Bush Tax Cuts (VIDEO) - 8/6/2010 9:51:29 AM   
cadenas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Actually the problem is in the thinkprogress analysis, and they are the ones using misleading statistics. Here are the main two claims in the article:

"Less than two percent of the small businesses in the country make enough money to file in either of the top two tax brackets McConnell mentions. But that hasn't stopped House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) from piling on."

This is true, but meaningless. "Small businesses" includes 10s of thousands of people who make part time income from things like Amway, Ebay and other spending money sources. and file Schedule C so they can write off expenses. So the percentage of Schedule C filers in the top two brackets is small. The real issue is how much INCOME is being drained from the private economy, and that is exactly what McConnell was talking about and the study shows....50% of small business income is in the top two tax brackets, as they tacitly agree in their next sentence, but then throw in more bs.


First of all, politicians seem to usually define "small business" as businesses up to 500 (!) employees, and that is probably the case here, too. The Congressional Committee report linked in that article seems to define "small business" as "a business making less than $50 million".

Secondly, the 50% number really is misleading. The report actually gives additional information:

The top two tax brackets are about 750,000 taxpapers, or 3%. Total business income is $1 trillion.

That means:

- 24.25 million are in the lower tax brackets.
- The high earners make an average of $667k
- Those in the regular tax brackets make an average of $20k. That's a far cry from the Amway spending money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Who are these small businesses that are in the top two rates? Primarily doctors, lawyers and consulting specialists in various fields. The group that probably re-invests the largest percentage of their net income back into the economy. Plus they employ large numbers of support staff, on average 2-3 employees or outside vendors per individual.


Professionals (such as doctors, lawyers, consultants) generally don't need a large support staff (with the exception of doctors, who need a huge support staff to deal with the health insurance industry bureaucracy).

Also, high-income earners generally spend LESS of their incomes. The key to reviving the economy is to get money into the hands of those people who will actually spend it.


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RE: GOP Uses Creative Stats To Push Bush Tax Cuts (VIDEO) - 8/6/2010 10:13:12 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

Secondly, the 50% number really is misleading. The report actually gives additional information:

The top two tax brackets are about 750,000 taxpapers, or 3%. Total business income is $1 trillion.

That means:

- 24.25 million are in the lower tax brackets.
- The high earners make an average of $667k
- Those in the regular tax brackets make an average of $20k. That's a far cry from the Amway spending money.




I dont have time to check your stats right now (it appears to be based on all income, not Schedule C income) but the bolded is a fallacious statistic for purposes of refuting my post. What you should be arguing with, although I suspect it wouldnt suit your purpose, is MEDIAN small business income, not average. Without looking at irs.gov I'll throw out a guess that the median is on the order of $5,000....ie half of those 98% make below $5000, firmly in spending money territory. I'll also throw out a guess that at least 75% are in the lower 4 tax brackets.

Again, McConnell's statement was that 50% of the income is in the top 2 filing brackets. Its easy enough to check without relying on him, the JCT and certainly not thinkprogress.

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RE: GOP Uses Creative Stats To Push Bush Tax Cuts (VIDEO) - 8/6/2010 6:18:29 PM   
AnimusRex


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I just think its funny how schizophrenic the GOP is-

Monday-
"OMG DEFICITS ARE COMING TO KILL US!!!!
BALANCE THE BUDGET NOW!!"

Tuesday-
"Lets keep the tax cuts. No need to raise revenue."

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