Arguments

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attendedone -> Arguments (8/6/2010 10:23:16 PM)
When a dom/sub couple has an argument where both parties are angry, do expectations change, or do you still expect the sub to comply with certain rules?

LadyPact -> RE: Arguments (8/6/2010 10:35:42 PM)
I think I've said this on other threads before. I don't argue. I may discuss or even debate a subject, but there is no arguing in My dynamic. When I've given My final decision on a matter in My authority, unless there is some kind of additional information that I didn't have prior, that's the end of it. If clip presses an issue but is just rehashing the the discussion, I'll command him to kneel. That's his cue to know that it is time to be silent on the matter. It can be revisited if he has something new to bring to the discussion, but until there is something that I haven't already heard on the subject, the matter is closed.

MaamJay -> RE: Arguments (8/6/2010 11:02:10 PM)
Master and i rarely have arguments, and if one starts to arise (ie we both start to get angry), it doesn't last long. Master simply gets Uber-Dommly, reminds me to whom i am speaking and tells me to go somewhere quiet and think about it for a few minutes and cool off. He does the same (He has been known to take it out on the weeds ... about the only time He voluntarily does gardening!). After a few minutes i am invariably sorry for getting angry and upsetting Him ... and He is also sorry that He allowed Himself to get angry too. So we apologise to each other and then discuss the issue calmly. Almost inevitably a solution is found so easily we can hardly believe we missed it first time round! We do however, have lots of discussion and debates even ... all that is fair as long as it doesn't get heated. He appreciates that He has an intelligent woman with well-thought out opinions to share ... i appreciate that He is willing to hear them, both of us agree to present our points of view in a mature manner. One thing we have noticed after adopting this nomadic life in a big rig is how many fellow nomads argue like blazes all the time LOL! Every new van that pulls into the park is a probable domestic about to happen during that all-critical "parking it in the right place" activity. Small wonder there is always an audience that just happens to pop out of their vans to watch the show. We saw one woman toting her oxygen bottle to breathe ... but still managing to give her hubby what-for because he wasn't parking it "just right"! And then once they're parked they sit out there in their chairs not looking or speaking to each other. Why bother?? We notice a lot of people come out to watch us, because our rig IS so big that it is a real challenge in Australian caravan parks ... they are usually very disappointed LOL! In the very early days, we did get a bit heated a few times, so we sat down and analysed why this occurred. We realised it was because i, armed with walkie-talkie and outside the vehicle, was trying to tell Him at the wheel, what to do. That wasn't working! So instead, i tell Him what needs to be done ... and then He works out how to achieve it. So for example, when hitching, instead of saying "that's wrong, you're too far over to the right, go left!" or worse still, "left hand down!", i will say "the pin is about an inch to the right of the slot" ... and then it's up to Him how to get it to the right place! The other thing is that i give a LOT of positive feedback over the walkie-talkie ... "yes, that's looking good, that's a good angle, don't need any more turn though" ... and that works for Him too. One of the things i love most about Master is that He CAN and WILL stop me from getting really worked up because i hate the loss of self-control when that happens. He is one of the few people i have ever met who is capable of stopping me in my tracks. i also love that He is so willing to calm down and apologise Himself ... and then so capable of discussing and resolving the issue calmly. And once resolved, it's over ... we might raise it sometimes for a mutual laugh over how silly it was to get so heated, but it's never used in a negative sense. i have learned a lot from Him about self-control. I think the OP might have been looking for an "out" when angry, but really, the D should be committed to their own self-control, or the ability to call time out when they feel themselves getting angry, thus giving the sub time to calm down too. Allowing an argument to escalate isn't appropriate. LadyPact has the command "Kneel" which works for Her as a means of calling an end to a discussion that is becoming inappropriate. Master has "Who do you think you're talking to?" which works for us! I think having some such trigger is very helpful and should be something worked out between the D and s at a time when emotions are calm. Maam Jay aka violet[A]

DarkSteven -> RE: Arguments (8/7/2010 3:51:19 AM)
The first rule I have is that we separate and cool off separately.

COINT -> RE: Arguments (8/7/2010 7:15:33 AM)
We have generally avoid it. We're both too good with 'command presence' and standing firm to ever get anything out of it. Its better that we just hit some overtime at work, cool down, and resume the set roles in a bit.

leadership527 -> RE: Arguments (8/7/2010 9:21:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: attendedone When a dom/sub couple has an argument where both parties are angry, do expectations change, or do you still expect the sub to comply with certain rules? I've never felt the need to put any rules in place regarding arguments. Carol and I have always treated each other with a great deal of respect. If someone is SO angry that even those basic parts of our personality are being hidden, then it's also unlikely that any command would do much to make the problem better. It's rare. It happens. We get over it quickly. I don't sweep major emotions under the rug.

HisEvelyn -> RE: Arguments (8/7/2010 10:29:44 AM)
Master and I have very rarely had serious arguments. Most of the time we simply discuss what is wrong and work it out without ever raising our voices. There is only one time I can remember when things got heated. We were bitching at each other, and I was getting a bit mouthy in my agitation, and he simply said, "Silence". I didn't even apologize, I just shut the hell up. Then Master proceeded to explain exactly what he was thinking about the situation. Told me his thoughts and feelings, and then allowed me to do the same while he listened. Things were very smooth after that. We haven't yet had a real 'fight' where we actually got really steamed. If it happened, I can only imagine he would silence me again, then go away for a few minutes so we can both calm down. Then the same thing as previously described, taking turns talking and then working it out.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Arguments (8/7/2010 10:32:16 AM)
I don't argue. I refuse to engage. Were you referring to arguments about real life, or perhaps "discussions" about something like a political issue? I really try to avoid those that are my political opposite (learned THAT the hard way!) but I wouldn't dream of denying someone the right to express their views in a respectful manner. Key word: respectful.

sweetsub1957 -> RE: Arguments (8/7/2010 11:01:48 AM)
~FR~ Daddy & I never argue. That's just the way it is. HE has the last word in everything. ~sweetsub~

porcelaine -> RE: Arguments (8/7/2010 11:02:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: attendedone When a dom/sub couple has an argument where both parties are angry, do expectations change, or do you still expect the sub to comply with certain rules? I refuse to argue and see no reason to allow a discussion to take a negative turn. Arguments are often the result of heightened emotions, poor communication skills, and an unwillingness to listen without taking offense. I expect him to articulate his thoughts and feelings in a respectful manner. If that's compromised and I believe it's better to table the topic until he regains composure I'll do so. Screaming matches are not my forte and indicative of poor self-control on both ends. ~porcelaine

attendedone -> RE: Arguments (8/8/2010 3:24:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Were you referring to arguments about real life, or perhaps "discussions" about something like a political issue? I was referring to non-political arguments

LadyNTrainer -> RE: Arguments (8/8/2010 6:27:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: attendedone When a dom/sub couple has an argument where both parties are angry, do expectations change, or do you still expect the sub to comply with certain rules? I expect us both to behave like adults who love and respect each other, and to express our anger and disappointment honestly and freely but without yelling, name calling or blaming. It is okay to say, "When you did this, it made me feel sad/angry/hurt/disappointed, because....." and go into further details. It is not okay to be nasty about it or to assume your partner hurt you on purpose. The point is to communicate what went wrong, educate your partner honestly about why it went wrong, and mutually negotiate better ways to deal with similar situations in the future. Same ground rules apply to both of us. I don't consider it acceptable for me to be verbally abusive towards my submissives either, not outside of a consensual scene. If I am angry or disappointed, what actually works for making positive changes is to honestly discuss how I feel and how I need him to change his behavior to make me happy. Yelling doesn't solve anything, and punishing an adult is not something I expect to have to do a lot of in my life, or I'd start feeling like I'm not in a relationship with an adult any more. That would be a deal breaker for me. Nor is punishment very effective for actual behavior modification anyhow. I trust my partners to want to make me happy, so all it takes is communicating clearly and also listening carefully. I never care who is right or wrong or whose fault it is. I generally assume it's nobody's fault, and that we just need better communication to avoid stepping on the wrong spots in each other's emotional minefields. What's important is fixing it in the future, not who was right in the past. Blame is irrelevant, and the way I grew up learning to do things is not necessarily The Right Way, nor is someone else necessarily wrong for thinking it should be done differently. So if my submissive does something that works for him but doesn't work for me, I simply inform him of that and tell him to do it my way, without blaming or implying he's bad or wrong for having learned to do it another way. I am the dominant and I do get it my way, but that doesn't make his way wrong or him a bad person. The one time I was in a relationship with someone who did not understand these ground rules, I was utterly miserable and had to end it. He cared more about whose fault it was and who was Right than about fixing the issue, and that wasn't constructive at all. We both felt disrespected in the relationship because we had two very different styles of communication, and his flat out did not work for me. My current poly relationship is pretty much zero-drama, and we solve all conflicts by talking them out while keeping foremost in our mind that we are adults who love and respect each other and that our mutual goal is to strengthen the relationship and make one another happy. It works very, very well for us.

DesFIP -> RE: Arguments (8/11/2010 6:24:51 PM)
We've had a couple of major ones but only in the first couple of years living together. We've learned since that they're always due to miscommunication. He was big on never going to bed angry and that may work for him but adding sleep deprivation to me in a bad mood is not a good thing. So we switched to going to bed naked and hugging each other. The next day whenever we could figure out how better to express our thoughts, we talked again. And that's when we would get the "Oh but I thought you meant..."

Aynne88 -> RE: Arguments (8/11/2010 7:15:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957 ~FR~ Daddy & I never argue. That's just the way it is. HE has the last word in everything. ~sweetsub~ Wow..that's nice. I can't even imagine being that way. Don't you ever even as a submissive sometimes know you are right? Then what do you do?

LadynCharge -> RE: Arguments (8/11/2010 9:59:25 PM)
Respectful communication usually solves most issues. I do not act in anger and will not tolerate anyone doing so in my household or relationships. We may talk however in the end... I will always have the final say.

LadyNTrainer -> RE: Arguments (8/11/2010 11:47:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Wow..that's nice. I can't even imagine being that way. Don't you ever even as a submissive sometimes know you are right? Then what do you do? It doesn't actually matter who's "right". What matters is fixing what's wrong in a constructive, positive way that strengthens rather than weakens the relationship. My submissive may end up being factually correct about something, and if that is so, I will acknowledge that. Both of my boys are brilliant, accomplished in their respective fields, and generally very competent adults. So naturally they'll very often be right. I am not going to discount their knowledge and experience because it comes from a submissive. That would be silly. The bottom line is that I'm the dominant and we're still going to end up doing what I decide. I will always respectfully listen to input they have, because they're very smart guys and have a lot of expertise. They provide the information; I make the judgment call based on that information. If the question is who is/was morally in the right, the automatic answer is both, neither, or it's simply irrelevant. All that matters is that we both get a chance now to communicate clearly and honestly about how we feel, listen to one another carefully and respectfully, and negotiate ways to do things differently in the future so that it works better for everyone. Wasting time and energy arguing about who is more "right" is counterproductive, and it's a game I refuse to play. Different people may have learned to do things different ways in the past, and attaching value judgments to those ways is not in any way helpful or constructive. Discussing your expectations, needs and desires for how to make your different ways compatible in the future is. Example #1: "I was raised in a household where we did the dishes right after dinner. That's the RIGHT way. Letting them sit in the sink overnight is WRONG, and you're a bad, sloppy, lazy person for doing it that way. I just know I'm RIGHT." Example #2: "I was raised in a household where we did the dishes right after dinner. I recognize and respect that you may prefer to do it differently, but it makes me feel bad and sloppy when dirty dishes are left in the sink, and my sense of smell is very sensitive. For my personal comfort and to make me happy, I would like the dishes done right after dinner. I value and appreciate all you do for this household, and this would add greatly to my appreciation." In example 1, these folks are going to get too caught up in arguing over who is RIGHT and calling each other names to get the dishes done, let alone strengthen their relationship. In example 2, there is no judging, no name calling, no moral one-upmanship, just a clear communication, a straightforward request, and an expression of caring and appreciation. Doesn't really matter if this is a vanilla couple, a D/s couple or just roommates. The same rule applies - if you get too caught up in who is RIGHT, you are very likely to lose sight of what actually works to resolve the conflict positively and strengthen rather than weaken the relationship.

laurell3 -> RE: Arguments (8/11/2010 11:55:07 PM)
I'm not sure that I agree that expressing anger or arguing is necessarily always negative, sometimes it may be necessary. Screaming isn't likely to net positive results and I would remove myself from that, but I wouldn't want any rules that say that either of us cannot express the feelings that we are having, including anger. That having been said, I rarely engage in heated arguments. I tend to remove myself when I'm upset to process my feelings before adressing it so I know both that what I am feeling and expressing are rational and so that I know that it is something we need to address as opposed to something I need to address. I have never been in any relationship where I agreed that any role-based communication rules applied to relationship issues and find it a bit silly and counterproductive personally to not encourage open and honest communication without roles in that area.

cloudboy -> RE: Arguments (8/13/2010 8:17:56 PM)
In my case, D/S does not play role in addressing raw feelings or other relationship issues. Yes, we do have occasional fights and arguments, which seems to at variance from others' accounts of their own relationships. In general, we try to stay constructive. Sometimes it takes a while for issues to resolve and normalcy to return.

RumpusParable -> RE: Arguments (8/14/2010 2:11:18 PM)
It's rare that we have a real argument, but yet he's expected to still follow certain rules (so am I for that matter) about being basically respectful in tone and wording, giving the other person their chance to talk, et cetera.

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