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RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/8/2010 1:34:44 AM

Hismouse

Posts: 34
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

Thank you texangael,
Very valid points, it's all helpful, we do not always see ourselves as others do though, and quite often I get surprised when someone describes my qualities or traits, and I have friends that have asked how I see them, and they too have been surprised, for they do not always see the qualities or traits in themself that I see as their friend.

mouse

quote:

ORIGINAL: texangael

If this is more or less a direct quote of your Sir then I would suggest the two of you spend some quality time working on your communication.

You are in essence saying he perceives you to have a different demeanor than what you perceive. That is a disconnect--potentially a significant one. It warrants further exploration.

Focus makes a good point--Dom and sub behavior are intertwined. Your reactions are keyed by his actions (and vice versa). If the reactions are not to everyone's liking it is the actions that everyone must change.

(in reply to texangael)

Post #: 21

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/8/2010 1:45:07 AM

Hismouse

Posts: 34
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

I would have to say we have good lines of communication, and if He sees I have trouble talking about something, He makes me write it down, he is an excellent listener, and a very fair man with what would seem a mountain of patience, for that I am very grateful, he knows I have the potential to get this right, and be what he requires, and he has seen me do it in my past, and it has made us both very happy. I don't know what the turning point was for me, when I started to put my own obstacles in my own way, only I can change, I know that, he is a good teacher, It frustrates me that I frustrate him

mouse

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHAP

For the most part i concur with the group. communication and open discussion with your master is "key". I have rarely ever had to correct a slave twice. even in extreme cases - I expect - open acceptance of punishment, and correction. if i sense attitude or reluctance, i always talk it out with that slave.

(in reply to MHAP)

Post #: 22

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/8/2010 1:50:29 AM

Hismouse

Posts: 34
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

Thanks leadership,
I do so love reading your posts, I always learn from what you write. I do not feel I dismiss him, so in essence I think you may be right.

I used to wear his collar, he feels that is when things changed, I think he sees it as 'oh good he owns me now, I don't have to try', for me it was not like that, it was like an expectation I had to live up to for fear of loosing it. I am much more relaxed without it, just because I don't wear it anymore, doesn't mean I don't think he cares for me, or I for him, it doesn't mean I don't want to submit to him, I am just happier without it.

Appreciate your response
mouse

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Carol and I don't often find ourselves in a "chastisement" situation, but it does come up. Really, if you were sitting here, what it'd look like to you would be two adults calmly discussing something. Carol has never had a dismissive attitude towards me... not when we were vanilla and not now. That has nothing to do with the collar, it has to do with her loving and respecting me. If Carol knew that I was actually displeased with her, I'd have her rapt and undivided attention. She might possibly be angry at me, but she most certainly would not be dismissive.

Only you can figure out whether you actually are being dismissive of him. If you are, then honestly all is lost and there's nothing you can do. If not, then what's going on is that he is mis-reading body language your throwing. So it's just a basic communication problem. You and he need to talk and figure out exactly what signals he's seeing. After that, you need to minimize those signals and he needs to learn to reinterpret them.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 23

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/8/2010 1:52:26 AM

Hismouse

Posts: 34
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

Thank you aldompdx, that is deep, and one that I will need to time to digest and take to Him for discussion

mouse

quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. He is deluded if he thinks he has the power to make you change. It is your choice to welcome his preferences into your life.

The question is not whether his feelings are "right." A feeling is what it is. The question is -- what choices are you actually making?

(in reply to aldompdx)

Post #: 24

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/8/2010 1:57:00 AM

Hismouse

Posts: 34
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

Thank you porcelaine,
Conditioning I like :-) that and structure as a rule work for me, when I think of my offspring, I understand what your saying.

mouse

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

Chastisement reminds of me things I did with my daughter. I'm direct and I address behavior that falls outside of my directives and/or expectations.

However, merely saying you did this without providing concrete examples isn't helpful. It isn't a lecture and the conversation is participatory. What was the individual thinking/feeling when this took place? I'm looking for the catalyst for the infraction because that's what needs correcting. I look for patterns as well. Is this a random occurrence or something I've seen developing over a period of time. Communication is key and merely approaching the situation from an accusatory standpoint isn't effective in my opinion.

I don't readily assume the behavior is intentional or indicative of willfulness without something to substantiate that upon. Guesstimating without feedback usually leads to fingerpointing even if the submissive never shares their thoughts. That isn't an environment I want to cultivate. The goal is addressing the problem and moving beyond it to allow a different reaction/behavior next time. I view this as more conditioning and less related to discipline. The latter would entail repeated offenses that take place once I've impressed my standard.

~porcelaine

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 25

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/8/2010 2:15:20 AM

Hismouse

Posts: 34
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

Thanks, but thats not at all helpful, I didn't ask you what he was thinking, sorry but these responses to posts are not helpful.
When people come here for advise and they get a response like this, quite often we don't hear from them again, they tend to withdraw or are passed off as a troll. My question was about how you do things with your sub, I didn't ask you to tell me what he thinks.

A problem shared is a problem halved. I come to the boards because others have more experience (not always, but sometimes), most are open and willing to share.

Thanks for your response anyway, guess there is something to be learned from everyone!
mouse

quote:

ORIGINAL: reynardfox

Why not ask him? Hoiw do we know what he wants? Isn't that your problem?

(in reply to reynardfox)

Post #: 26

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/8/2010 2:17:07 AM

Hismouse

Posts: 34
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

Thank you kiwisub that was most helpful, certainly an idea I can use :-) I too am visual and learn by doing :-)

mouse

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Perhaps you should ask him to show you - as in act out - what he sees you doing after being chastised. Then you could see specifically what you are doing that he is objecting to.

I am a very concrete person - unless i know exactly what he is referring to i can't change a behaviour. For instance, my ex-h. would say that i wasn't being supportive enough - which told me absolutely nothing. I had no clue what to change because the sentence meant nothing to me.

If i had something visual to see, it was easier for me to understand the comment.

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 27

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/8/2010 10:28:42 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
Perhaps you should ask him to show you - as in act out - what he sees you doing after being chastised. Then you could see specifically what you are doing that he is objecting to.

That's a really good idea kiwi... and one I use between Carol and myself regularly. Oft-times these subtle sorts of things are very hard to sort out... but if you can catch them red-handed as they occur it's WAY easier to talk about.

So let's assume something I was doing was annoying the crap out of Carol and I just couldn't wrap my head around what she was trying to tell me. My standard answer at that point is to say something like,

OK mine. Listen and obey. The next time you see this happening I want you to stop immediately and red-flag the event so we can talk about it right there and then.

Talking about stuff in theory can sometimes be hard. Specific details make it easier.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 28

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/9/2010 4:24:39 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hismouse

Like the moe by the way :-)

And I'm liking the long hair, wardrobe and highly spankable butt....

Scratch my first post; I'm thinking the best way to resolve your relationship troubles is to end it and move here. ;)

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to Hismouse)

Post #: 29

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/9/2010 4:49:39 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

Without specifics there can be no answers. What exactly changed in the last six months? Was it you or him or a combination of the two?

I am not saying it is him. But people can get aggravated with their partner or other aspects of their own lives and can manipulate all of their own feelings and failings to be left at the feet of their partner.

It gets even worse when you bring in the ego of the almighty Dom.

Then again it could all be you. It probably is. We Doms are never wrong.

_____________________________

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 30

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/25/2010 6:54:41 AM

SomoneReal

Posts: 65
Joined: 7/5/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hismouse

My question is to the Masters of the boards. If you chastise your sub what sort of behaviour do you expect during and after the fact? Subs are more than welcome to answer, I'd appreciate to know how it makes you feel, and what you do afterwards to try and make it up to your Dom/Sir/Master?

I ask, because my Sir has told me I seem to have an attitude of 'yeah whatever, fuck you' :-(
I don't think I do, but then again I do not profess to be right all the time, nor am I perfect, but
am open to learning and trying to do things better, to please him and make him happy.

Hismouse

Get on your knees, ask him for forgiveness and guidance, and worship his cock, than continue worshiping him until you part ways.

(in reply to Hismouse)

Post #: 31

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/25/2010 2:15:26 PM

daddysliloneds

Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline

no one 'chastizes' me, and i wouldn't do it to anyone else; we're not two year olds for fucks sake! as a matter of fact, i wouldn't even chastize a two year old.

last time anyone did to that to me, i cried, as i walked out the door, never to look back, no regrets!

(in reply to Hismouse)

Post #: 32

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/25/2010 3:56:16 PM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hismouse

My question is to the Masters of the boards. If you chastise your sub what sort of behaviour do you expect during and after the fact? Subs are more than welcome to answer, I'd appreciate to know how it makes you feel, and what you do afterwards to try and make it up to your Dom/Sir/Master?

I ask, because my Sir has told me I seem to have an attitude of 'yeah whatever, fuck you' :-(
I don't think I do, but then again I do not profess to be right all the time, nor am I perfect, but
am open to learning and trying to do things better, to please him and make him happy.

Hismouse

When he's had to chastise me, I've listened and then corrected my mistake to the best of my ability.
I apologize and then we move on, because that's what adults do.

_____________________________

(in reply to Hismouse)

Post #: 33

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/26/2010 1:46:28 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

If he thinks your normal way of interacting is an attitude, and you sincerely aren't angry/resentful/etc then you may not be very compatible. Because being chastised or punished for being who you are wears thin very quickly.

If he wants you to do certain things that demonstrate submissiveness in his eyes, then he needs to explain and teach these things. Does he want you never to look him in the eye? If so, he needs to teach you this expecting a learning curve. Punishing you for not doing something he's never taught you not to do is a sign of a poor dominant. If he can't explain why he thinks you have an attitude, then he needs some training in identifying specific items and communicating them.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Hismouse)

Post #: 34

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/27/2010 7:17:46 PM

Mesmerist

Posts: 24
Joined: 7/1/2010
Status: offline

She should always be open and attentive to what I am saying, and should be able to move on afterwords as it is over.

This is of course easier said than done. My lovely wife and I have worked very hard in this regard as she tends to hear any criticism from me in the worst light possible. She is finally able to expresss what she is hearing for clarification instead of assuming the worst. Like most she is much harder on herself than I would ever be.

_____________________________

fill your belly with good things;
day and night, night and day, dance and be merry,
feast and rejoice.
cherish the little child that holds your hand,
and make your wife happy in your embrace;
for this too is the lot of man.'

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 35

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/27/2010 9:29:02 PM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hismouse
Subs are more than welcome to answer, I'd appreciate to know how it makes you feel, and what you do afterwards to try and make it up to your Dom/Sir/Master?

Whenever I've been chastised for anything, I've felt extremely terrible.....like I'm so guilty it's the end of the world and I could never make it up. I'm mortified and remorseful and take it all very seriously. I will actually cry if I feel I'm a failure. I've very infrequently had to be chastised but, when I am, I thank Daddy for the correction and teaching and buck up and try to do my very best in the future to never do whatever it was again. I hate to be displeasing.

~sweetsub~

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to Hismouse)

Post #: 36

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/28/2010 4:20:11 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hismouse

I used to wear his collar, he feels that is when things changed, I think he sees it as 'oh good he owns me now, I don't have to try', for me it was not like that, it was like an expectation I had to live up to for fear of loosing it. I am much more relaxed without it, just because I don't wear it anymore, doesn't mean I don't think he cares for me, or I for him, it doesn't mean I don't want to submit to him, I am just happier without it.

Although you feel better not wearing it, it seems quite possible that he is insecure about the relationship since you quit wearing it. And the constant harping on your attitude is actually his insecurities coming out since he's always afraid you will leave. After all, although you say you're committed to him, you've already lessened the commitment by refusing the collar.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Hismouse)

Post #: 37

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/29/2010 1:35:58 AM

Wazz

Posts: 10
Joined: 2/3/2009
Status: offline

A little background should help the posters identify who i am, and the dynamics of our D/s relationship
The first 6 mths (2yrs ago) she listen and acted on my requests to the best of her ability (all that i asked of her)
I became ill (mentally) over the next 6 mths and she became my carer in almost every area of my life. (i owe her and a vanilla friend my life for that period)
I gained strength and started to take back my life and wanted to again be her Dom, however this is when the real trouble began, she didn’t want to "exchange the power" between us.
No exchange of power on any level = no Dom / sub relationship – She did not remove her collar i took it from her and asked her to leave after 15 mths.
Round two
We sat quietly and talked through our requirements for a D/s relationship.
We again entered into the D/s relationship, she has agreed and has given her submission, and we have had the “exchange of power” occur between us, but for short periods of time similarly to 6 mths ago when she took her power back little by little.
I have sat her down and we have had discussions in relation to this and she again agrees to give her power and to be submissive only to take back the submission and power in the next days and weeks, even though i stop her and explain her actions are not what’s wanted, needed or warranted. I again explain what’s required she again gives her submission and again takes it back just as before
I have tried as best i could to explain what’s not pleasing me and why, she is attentive and tells me she understands, but within an hour or two or a day or two she again exhibits the same behaviour that displeased me in the first instance.
Brattyness, tone of voice, stance, posture it can be one or more of these things that cause’s the disapproval and me to believe she is not being submissive.
I am not a strict Dom who will chastise for every little infraction,
I chastise her, explaining why i am displeased, i ask her if she understands, and if she understands then for me its all over and done, i forgive and move on -however she becomes silent – moves to another part of the house and pouts and sulks. I would expect this behaviour from a child who has been sent from the room and told children should be seen and not heard, not an adult.
We have very good open communication, we talk about everything and i accept that i have at times been slow to pull her into line for infractions, then again when we discussed this and it was agreed i was slow, and i should pull her up at the time / instance i became very aware and began to do just that, a spanking with the spoon / hand / cane / talk whatever was needed depending on degree of infraction, only to be met with the same response from her, distance, no remorse, sulking etc.
I thank all the posters who have given hismouse their experience and have tried to help us sort through this, we care for each other and want to make it work, cause when we “work” its magic but when its “not working” it really stinks !

_____________________________

Note to self
Die with no regrets : Dont die tommorow.

(in reply to Hismouse)

Post #: 38

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/29/2010 7:11:23 AM

daddysliloneds

Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline

the sulking, resentment, pouting gets old real fast, just as being chastized all the time; it appears the two of you only stay together because you both feel you 'owe' the other person something due to your previous illness. if you both feel that you're doing nothing wrong, then perhaps a marriage counselor type of person could help, then again, perhaps not...

good luck.

(in reply to Wazz)

Post #: 39

RE: Chastise - what behaviour do you expect? - 8/29/2010 9:38:11 AM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

Wazz and mouse--

texangael had it right when he pointed out there was a disconnect.

You don't even share the same perception over how the collar ceased to be worn.

mouse,

Do you recognize that behaviour outlined as being yours? You seem not to.
What part seems foreign to you?
What part seems untrue?
What part seems to be an exaggeration?

I think since you both care about each other (and I believe that), some type of couples counseling would be a good idea. They have kink aware therapists.
If your perceptions on the same events are so different, the two of you are barely in the same book, nevermind the same page.

You need help to come to common understandings and to see things from a point of view that is more cohesive as a unit.

edit: spelling

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 8/29/2010 9:39:01 AM >

_____________________________

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to Wazz)

Post #: 40

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