RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/18/2010 7:28:55 AM)

What in particular about the radio dials does your friend find so puzzling? And he has too much time on his hands, clearly.

Besides, radios don't exist. The idea of radio is already out there, anyone can replicate it, so you can't actually own one.

Or something like that.

[8|]

[Man, people making a living from meta-ideas are really going to be in for a shock!]

[;)]





pahunkboy -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/18/2010 8:05:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

What in particular about the radio dials does your friend find so puzzling? And he has too much time on his hands, clearly.

Besides, radios don't exist. The idea of radio is already out there, anyone can replicate it, so you can't actually own one.

Or something like that.

[8|]

[Man, people making a living from meta-ideas are really going to be in for a shock!]

[;)]




It is an online radio station- and easy to click in a request.

One group was endlessly pushing their music and it was not good.

Sorta like payola.

I listen to radio all day long.


More so music right now as opposed to my doom pundits.




Musicmystery -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/18/2010 8:23:02 AM)

Ah.

Still, hundreds of other online stations.

Not to mention Pandora et al....




pahunkboy -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/18/2010 8:50:26 AM)

Specifically the link- VT radio.

Being it is just a click- it is easy to do.

I tuned in the local rock station in the FM when they do 107 mins of commercial free music.

Otherwise- I like the VT radio station.    not that anywhere else is not good- just the current habit of mine.





Termyn8or -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/18/2010 11:11:48 PM)

FR

On rethought, I am thinking that the industry is going through a metamorphsis now. The digital age has made this necessary. There are now bars with jukeboxes connected to the net, to vast libraries of music. So much you could never search through. They put their money in the slot and off it goes. If you have this type of system nobody should have a problem. The money is just cut up and everybody gets their's.

Ten years go on satellite radio if you bought a broadcast of a piece, say classical music, there were bytes of ID embedded in it to ID the person who recieved it, this was not necessarily downloadig in today's form. If someone else was caught with a CD of something that had your ID on it, you could get in trouble, or so they said.

The digital age could be good or bad for all concerned really. How many times in the old days we bought a whole album to get one or two songs ? I have done it more than once. It may be nice to have an album, such as Rink Floyd - Animals. Yes I downloaded it but I did buy it twice. I bought Led Zepplin - Presence just to get Achille's Last Stand.

So now if we can pick and choose exactly what we want, and pay only for that, the benefits are twofold. For one we save money, but our dollars vote for the songs giving feedback to these professionals. This can help them make more money, by telling them what the public wants. No more one song for the price of ten.

Now promotion is another thing. Say at the end of every MP3 there is an ad "You can buy this for $X at whatever.com. "

Once you buy it you get it free and clear, you can burn it and everything as you could with the promotional version. But there is no ad. There is a unique ID in it though that will ID you if you take to distributing disks of it. Possibly allow a couple of copies for friends and like that, but to redistribute would be considered stealing.

Say you buy a song and two friends really have to have it. OK. But then they might come for you asking why there have been 100 people caught with your download. And just as DVD burning software can make a DVD copy uncopiable, this should be an easy task.

But people have to work and that is exactly what they are doing. I did what I did, and I wouldn't mind so much paying for it if I have the money. But I'm not making any money. Now if I were to run an ad in the local paper saying "I'll download and burn you a CD of anything" and I was actually making money, I should probably pay something.

But just like the old days when physical media was in vogue, like the trucks that used to haul this vinyl and later CDs to it's actual selling point, then I should also be compensated, right ? You think truck drivers work(ed) for free ?

But see then people could legally put together their own set on a CD. Would that not increase sales if the proper amount was remitted ? To give them a valid copy, unlocked from copyright at least digitally and playable anywhere, with a replacement available at a reasonable copying cost, would that not be attractive to many buyers ? That they don't have to pay $18.95 to get one song ? To just pay for what they want instead of filler ?

This has come up in my world more than once "Why is it that most bands, their first albulm is the best ? ". I can tell you why. Their first album took a lifetime to create, and then they get the contract and they make alot of money. But then the contract requires them to come up with another album in so many months, and alot can't do it. I couldn't, and I bet almost anyone here couldn't. So you do filler, just something that sounds good to you or some covers, whatever it takes to fulfill that contract. Otherwise you get sued. That's how it used to be.

Some could. One album comes to mind Pink Floyd - Animals. That thing is made to listen to all the way through, in fact now that we don't have to flip the album over it is even better. But that is the exception rather than the rule.

But when you can buy it song by song the whole thing works out better. The suits might make less money but really I think the musicians will make more in the end. All other things being equal.

Promotional music has been tried, by various methods. Passing out one song cassettes, releasing singles. In older days you bought a 45 and got a free song on the flipside. Them days were over a long time ago. But I remember them as if it was five minutes ago. Sometimes it was the format, sometimes it was a short version. It's called marketing and that's what the suits do.

They have their function, but I think they are quite overpaid. And they wield too much power over what is promoted and what is not. Despite my problems I can look at this objectively at least. This is seen as doom by the suits who see the profits down, but for true musicians, the digital age can be a new beginning. You sell each song on it's own merit. You are not forced to produce, you do it when you are damn good and ready.

Then maybe female artists won't have to suck dick to get an album "cut". Pay by merit. If this situation is handled properly, it can be good for all concerned. That is if they don't blow the world up today. But we all share that problem.

T




Musicmystery -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/19/2010 7:53:54 AM)

quote:

You are not forced to produce, you do it when you are damn good and ready.


Or realize sitting around thinking isn't putting any food on the table.

quote:

Then maybe female artists won't have to suck dick to get an album "cut"


You are living in the past. The things you are discussing were issues 35 years ago. Today, that entrepreneurial artist will have a web site with mp3 downloads or streaming audio and a schedule of gigs.

For whatever reason, fewer women pursue music in this sense. Fewer in bands, even fewer singer/songwriters. I have no idea why, but it's not because anyone is keeping them out. Those that do so face no more and no less than the men do.




Termyn8or -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/19/2010 8:18:06 AM)

Not actually living in the past, describing the past.

T




Musicmystery -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/19/2010 2:36:06 PM)

Termy,

Ironically, two NPR stories today about the points you raise:

Control Your Image: Women Musicians Seize On Social Media

Sheet Music Piracy: You Can Get Everything For Free On The Internet

Enjoy.




SeanPony -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/19/2010 2:42:28 PM)

Sharing is Caring :)

http://warez-bb.org




Musicmystery -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/19/2010 2:45:12 PM)

Good. A couple of armed masked guys are coming over later tonight to "share" your stuff.




Jeffff -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/19/2010 2:47:50 PM)

Property is theft!

It's not his stuff, it is the Peoples Stuff!




SorceressJ -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/19/2010 2:49:21 PM)

I was just reading an article where John Mellencamp says in no unambiguous terms that the Net has destroyed the music industry..
http://www.ontheredcarpet.com/2010/08/john-mellencamp-compares-internet-to-atomic-bomb.html?rss=rss-kabc-snippet-7618679




Rule -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/19/2010 5:09:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
But you didn't respond to what I perceived in a previous post. Is the fact that I own the PC on which my downloaded music resides, and that I paid the DSL bill mean that I own it ? Is it your assertion that I can then share it freely, or even sell it to those gullible enough to buy something you deem should be free, and it should be perfectly legal ?

Sure you own it, but not exclusively. It is in your (artificially) extended memory, isn't it?
No you cannot sell it, as it is not your exclusively. But you can sell an information carrier (that has that or other information on it) - provided there is no patent on that information carrier.
It ought to be perfectly legal. (I am not saying it is. I am saying that per my understanding of ethics it ought to be.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I have a couple non driving friends and if I tell them it is ass, grass or gas to get here and play a movie, I have collected something material.

Which brings us to the cab driver. That ride is not material, only the gas and maintenance on the car. So he is not allowed to make a profit ? Does it extend that far ?

You are not selling them the movie. Instead you are providing them with hospitality and a seat - material things. So is the cab driver.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
They approached him personally and wanted to know why their company was doing fine while everyone else across the country was bitching. He told them what he did. They put him over there with their engineers and he showed them the modification. He made more money in a week than most people made in a year back then.

They used his knowledge to make more money and/or save their corporate ass.

Was that material enough ?

As I said: information can be sold only once. He did.




Rule -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/19/2010 5:21:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SorceressJ
I was just reading an article where John Mellencamp says in no unambiguous terms that the Net has destroyed the music industry..

It has? Well: good!

(I wish one of my sleen food neighbors knew. The sociopath is driving me into stress with his loud noises.)




pahunkboy -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/19/2010 5:23:26 PM)



I changed my mind.

whatever the group wants is fine with me.




Termyn8or -> RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers (8/20/2010 12:18:46 AM)

Well, this might be my last weekend for a bit so I decided I want to see "They Live". I have it downloaded and coud have easily copied it when I "rented" it. I know a guy used to have a video rental store, anything I wanted was nothing a week, month or year. I should've copied it on beta, but I didn't. Then I was willing to pay the fifty or whatever bucks for it but someone took him for it and it was in "moaratorium", I mean I wanted to order it and get it new. If you watch the movie (especially you Hunky) you will see what I mean. There is a reason why.

Shit like this I do not want streaming, I want it downloaded so I can keep it forwever. I was willing to pay but the suits were not willing to accept. Fuck you. You think you have control ? Well we got the internet, the overnet and the undernet. We got the same fucking software you got to spy on us. We got alot more than you think.

What you have to understand is like Mm said, everyone is not the Rolling Stones. That means their music or other art will be made unavailable by market forces, as shelf space is expensive. Ask the question, how many CDs ae at Walmart ? Then ask how many different CDs are available ay Walmart ?

Piper, who starred in They Live would not inhibit his profit, you think he is a total idiot ? The suits put that movie into moratorium because it made the wrong political statement at the wrong time.

It's called cooperation.

My problem has never beeen with musicians, actors or whatever getting paid, it is all disposable income therefoe it is based on what the market will bear. That is business. And the suits who make more than the musicians, well if they lay out the cash and coke for the payola, fine. Then they make what they make.

But the suits will quash anything they don't feel confortable with. If they show you the door you are usually done.

This is how it was done thirty years ago when people were honest and had some kind of heart. Think of it now.

Thank you all because I just came to a realization as I was taking a P a minute ago. You build from the ground up. In every aspet of the history in this country, if you don't know that it was formed by the rich, possibly aristocrats, you missed something,. George Washington was not a pauper by any stretch.

For something to work right, and stay standing, it is built from the bottom up. Do you build the second floor of a house first, or the basement ? Is that a metaphor that can be understood ?

Unions fucked up because they were a bunch of suits. The fact is that WE have to do it from the bottom up to get it right. I have realized that unions, including the musicians' union, and trade orgs like RIAA, BMI and ASCAP were not formed by the musicians. If they were they would have been alot different over the years you think ? What does a musician get out of the total take ? Twenty percent if he's lucky and smart ?

I have no problem paying musicians, but if I kick in a buck and they only get twenty cents that sucks. But that is their problem. And I have found something else in my mind, not so new. You DEMEND. You want me you pay me what I ask. What's more what the fuck are you doing for me. Even decades ago, they got most of the money, but really how much did that payola cost them ? A drop in the bucket.

So the suits make the lion's share of the profits and decide who gets on the radio or whatever.

That's fair ?

T




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