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You Know Your Internet?...It`s About To Change For The ... - 8/9/2010 6:47:22 PM   
Owner59


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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-aaron/google-verizon-pact-it-ge_b_676194.html

Google-Verizon Pact: It Gets Worse


So Google and Verizon went public today with their "policy framework" -- better known as the pact to end the Internet as we know it.

News of this deal broke this week, sparking a public outcry that's seen hundreds of thousands of Internet users calling on Google to live up to its "Don't Be Evil" pledge.

But cut through the platitudes the two companies (Googizon, anyone?) offered on today's press call, and you'll find this deal is even worse than advertised.

The proposal is one massive loophole that sets the stage for the corporate takeover of the Internet.

Real Net Neutrality means that Internet service providers can't discriminate between different kinds of online content and applications. It guarantees a level playing field for all Web sites and Internet technologies. It's what makes sure the next Google, out there in a garage somewhere, has just as good a chance as any giant corporate behemoth to find its audience and thrive online.

What Google and Verizon are proposing is fake Net Neutrality


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RE: You Know Your Internet?...It`s About To Change For ... - 8/9/2010 7:11:30 PM   
juliaoceania


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The answer is easy, don't use google or Verizon

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RE: You Know Your Internet?...It`s About To Change For ... - 8/9/2010 7:52:40 PM   
thornhappy


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Looks like it bears watching.  The original proposal's over here, the comments section is pretty good.

The NYTimes has a "play by play" of the conference here.

(I generally give the HuffPo poor reviews and look elsewhere for backup.)

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RE: You Know Your Internet?...It`s About To Change For ... - 8/9/2010 7:52:52 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

The answer is easy, don't use google or Verizon


For small to small mid-sized publishers there is little alternative to google adsense. I make about 70-80 percent of my revenue from them. There is no alternative that offers the same payouts. There are once you are larger, but google adsense is king by far. I've experimented with others and took a serious hit, like less than 50% of previous earnings.

I'll have to read this report in detail. On the bright side if Google is going all evil, well, it'll make it easier for a competitor to eventually emerge in a real way. As at present I'm not really looking anymore, and I almost use google search exclusively, probably 95% of the time, I use google docs, gmail, google apps, probably something else. Losing me would literally cost them 10's of thousands a year in profits.

So, not much by myself, but a 1000 others like me starts to hurt a bit.

Anyway, no opinion on the evilness until read everything and read the evaluations, etc... I really hope they aren't going stupid, I don't want to have to start searching for alternative, revenue streams. Sucks my time from productive activity.


Will return...





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RE: You Know Your Internet?...It`s About To Change For ... - 8/9/2010 7:55:44 PM   
Brain


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It’s a little more complicated.


Net neutrality is foremost free speech issue of our time

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
• Al Franken: Trend of media consolidation will mean end of free and open internet
• Mergers such as Comcast-NBC/Universal would control information flow, senator warns
• Far from "neutral," gatekeepers could discriminate on political views, who pays more, he says
• Franken: This is a bipartisan issue; all have a stake in preserving First Amendment

(CNN) -- If we learned that the government was planning to limit our First Amendment rights, we'd be outraged. After all, our right to be heard is fundamental to our democracy.
Well, our free speech rights are under assault -- not from the government but from corporations seeking to control the flow of information in America.
If that scares you as much as it scares me, then you need to care about net neutrality.
"Net neutrality" sounds arcane, but it's fundamental to free speech.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/08/05/franken.net.neutrality/index.html?hpt=C2

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

The answer is easy, don't use google or Verizon






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RE: You Know Your Internet?...It`s About To Change For ... - 8/9/2010 8:49:59 PM   
joether


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I'm all for net neutrality! Otherwise, those people, who think us kinky folks are sinful/evil, they can shut down collar.com. Or just block you for seeing it. People fear goverment intrusion, and while, that is a good thing; one should not be naive to the power of multi-national corporations operating in our country. Corporations can side step many of the issues, most Americans can not on their own.

However, the citizens do have tools at their disposal. Unfortunately, most are unable, or unwilling to employ them. Laws can be created, to gover corporate behavior, and regulators to make sure they dont break the rules. Unfortunately, thanks to the conservative Supreme Court's ruling a few months ago, Corporations can now run political compaigns to control the net, and support politicians (read: puppets), for state and federal office. I dont want this to sound like some conspiracy, or that all corporations are 'out to get us Americans', or even remotely 'turn us in to corporate slaves'.


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RE: You Know Your Internet?...It`s About To Change For ... - 8/9/2010 9:29:08 PM   
TheRaptorJesus


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The internet as we know it is dying and so few people know it or can even comprehend the gravity of what will/can happen.

I'm not one for the chicken little "sky is falling" mumbo-jumbo... but there are bad things on the horizon and it's not much of the current crop of legislators concern.

Damn old people trying to kill the internets :(


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RE: You Know Your Internet?...It`s About To Change For ... - 8/9/2010 9:38:09 PM   
Owner59


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Well,we can never hope to keep the nets from ever changing but if corporations are calling all the shots,it`s not going to be neutral.

Some sites(coincidental sites paying google/verison/other) will get high-speed feeds.

Other sites will get slower speeds and less access or no access at all.

The Internetz is the last place where average folks can get and give info without restrictions(for better and for worse)and it should stay that way.

Neutral.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/9/2010 9:39:45 PM >


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RE: You Know Your Internet?...It`s About To Change For ... - 8/9/2010 10:23:53 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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Well, from what I've read so far, it's bad wrapped in good.

My understanding is that they are proposing special treatment for some types of content, while I do see some necessity for this, it needs to be highly documented, and only for services that are in the public interest, such as hospital applications, electricity grid management type applications, Emergency communication, etc... They give some of those examples but don't appear to formalize it. It definitely should not give special treatment to any Entertainment type application, or generalized commercial activity.

Also, they say nothing applies to wireless, which is complete bullshit, because that is growing very fast, and many predict wireless internet will eventually be what most use in the future. As in your ipad type device, or car internet, smartphone, even wireless vending machines reporting back sales and status, the future is largely wireless, IMO. So, it's ridiculous that no type of neutral treatment should be applied in that domain.


I'm still trying to get at the intentions of it all from google's standpoint, Verizon's is easy to decipher, as in they want to milk all that wireless traffic, without a doubt. They still want to charge 60 dollars for 5 gigs of data a month for wireless with a 2 year contract. What a joke.

If the Services would be clearly and wholly defined that would receive possible special treatment, and it applied to any internet traffic, whether by line, or wireless, I could see this as reasonable. But it's to vague, and doesn't apply to the future growth area of the internet. (wireless).

So, Evil, I don't know, it's not good though.


Also, this line is disturbing. "which ensure that consumers have access to all legal content on the Internet". I don't think it is the business of google, or verizon to pull access to anything really. If something needs pulled the government should simply order the disconnection of the server/s or take control of the domain name after going through actual legal channels. Google and Verizon aren't in charge of enforcing / monitoring / or writing the law, they are supposed to comply in the realm of what is theirs, but not enforce without some legal authority telling them to on a case by case basis. Beyond that Google hosts m/billions of copyrighted works, without express permission, they walk a thin line getting uppity in regards to "legal content" issues. They crawl collarchat.com without permission,(cache:collarchat.com in google) I presume, sure you can use robots file to tell them not to but that is not the same as giving legal permission or not. As in I don't have to expressly state do not copy my stuff, in order for the default implication to be, you don't have the right. I also as an individual of minimal power, could not get away of making a complete or partial copy of collarchat.com and displaying it in full form, fair use would not cover that application.

So, whatever. Stupid.. Really.

It needs rewritten to include wireless, and to be very specific, in what type of applications would get different treatment, and those as a default should only be those that are completely in the realm of public interest.

Google also needs to check itself before it swallows itself, in it's own legally ambiguous activities, as is google holds more copyrighted content for display on it's servers than the whole bittorrent network, between, webpages, pdfs, docs, etc... Are they a special case? It would be different if they simply stored the data for analysis and showed a snippet, without displaying whole unchanged works(websites,documents), but that is not the case for the cache: function.

Anyway, still confused, what google thinks it will get out of this. All they have is their reputation really. If the perception swings to much, well, those billions disappear quickly, it isn't like they are microsoft, and have a billion machines, and users that are to one degree or another trapped to their product. www.google.com versus www.bing.com or www.scroogle.com or www.yahoo.co or www.nextsearchengine.com is not that difficult a change.










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RE: You Know Your Internet?...It`s About To Change For ... - 8/9/2010 11:44:17 PM   
Brain


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I don’t care about Google and Verizon’s “plan”. They can’t do whatever they want.
I think the FCC should extend its regulatory authority (remit) to enforce a set of internet rules.

FTA: The Federal Communications Commission last week called off talks aimed at agreeing rules for net neutrality, and has proposed extending its regulatory remit to enforce a set of internet rules.



Google and Verizon unveil web plan

But they said network operators should be able to charge more for a category of services that travel over a higher-quality connection separate from the public internet. They also proposed that wireless companies should be free to block individual internet services, provided they disclosed their actions. Services likely to travel over the communications “fast lanes” included high-bandwidth content such as healthcare and education and entertainment such as 3D video, said Ivan Seidenberg, Verizon chief executive.

The greater freedoms proposed by Google and Verizon drew condemnation from public interest groups that have supported the Obama administration’s push for net neutrality. Free Press claimed the plan would “divide the information superhighway, creating new private fast lanes for the big players while leaving the little guy stranded on a winding dirt road.” The Center for Democracy and Technology said that while it supported the rules that would prevent discrimination, the extra freedoms the groups were proposing would undermine the plan’s value.

Early reports of the joint proposal had already prompted strong attacks on Google, with critics claiming it was backing away from its commitment to net neutrality in favour of an approach that would mainly favour rich, established groups.

The Federal Communications Commission last week called off talks aimed at agreeing rules for net neutrality, and has proposed extending its regulatory remit to enforce a set of internet rules.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/8a51ac88-a405-11df-a872-00144feabdc0.html



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