RE: Non-submissive slaves

RE: Non-submissive slaves (Full Version)

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crouchingtigress -> RE: Non-submissive slaves (4/19/2006 9:03:06 PM)
Hi heatfeltsub, great name welcome to the boards... For some folks being forced is the core of thier kink....they like to be broken, (like horses) that want to be forcibly restrained and made to obey...it not my kink, but I had one of those once, but he was so much work, he did not last long.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Non-submissive slaves (4/19/2006 11:28:40 PM)
Ok, superficial analysis here, based on my own experiences and view points, 'cause without personal contact and several mind-reading sessions with the people involved ... it's always superficial. Some "Doms" call their "non-submissive slave" their wife. [:)] What I would call this particular "non-submissive slave" is a manipulator. Questions I would have are: 1. Do both members of the relationship ascribe their relationship as a D/s or a M/s relationship? 2. Did their relationship start as vanilla and then transition to something else? 3. If so - who took the lead in the change in the relationship? 4. Is this the "dom's" first slave/non-submissive submissive? 5. Is this the "slave's" first dom, or D/s relationship? 6. Are they married? 7. How long have they been in a relationship? The dom in this case could have several reasons for allowing this non-submission in his "slave", and I can't pass judgement on him. Or it could be a long developing change in a relationship that started out one way, but is heading in another direction. But at just this moment in time, with just the little insight that heartfeltsub has given us ... I'll hazard a guess or two. 1. The slave uses her "power" to control the dom through manipulation. She is defining her role in a way to keep him quiescent while she takes the reigns. 2. The dom either doesn't recognize this, or has chosen to ignore it - for the nonce. Personally, having slide from a D/s relationship to a similar manipulative vanilla relationship, I can sympathize with the dom. He may very well recognize what is going on, and the "non-submissive slave" is heading for a rude awakening one day, because that type of person (a manipulator) generally thinks they have everyone and everything around them "under control" and dancing to their tune. It is often a mistaken belief. Just as the belief that there is such a thing as a "non-submissive" consensual "slave". FHky

heartfeltsub -> RE: Non-submissive slaves (4/20/2006 2:56:27 AM)
Thank you very much for your insight Firmhand and to answer your questions, yes they both call it M/s or D/s, it is definitely not His first, but it is her first, they are not married, but she is in love with Him and i don't know if it is the same from His side. The relationship is about a couple of years old, however it has been rocky, with moves in and out because of her behavior toward Him and the others that He plays with. Thank you again for your words of wisdom.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Non-submissive slaves (4/20/2006 3:12:50 AM)
Thank you Crouching Tigress

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Non-submissive slaves (4/20/2006 6:27:52 AM)
I don't find it necessarily confusing. It could be someone who has a dominant personality but yet finds themselves submissive in orientation within their intimate relationship. It could be someone who doesn't consider themselves submissive at all, but yet somehow feels compelled to obey to a particular person. People are complex, if you can imagine it- people are doing it, and very happy about it.

JohnWarren -> RE: Non-submissive slaves (4/20/2006 7:00:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I don't find it necessarily confusing. It could be someone who has a dominant personality but yet finds themselves submissive in orientation within their intimate relationship. It could be someone who doesn't consider themselves submissive at all, but yet somehow feels compelled to obey to a particular person. People are complex, if you can imagine it- people are doing it, and very happy about it. One of John Campbell's personality types was the "barbarian." A barbarian would follow a leader he respected, even to the death, but if the leader failed in his responsiblities, the barbarian would feel free to leave or even to kill the leader. It's not a new thing: This is from one of Gordy Dickenson's books: My Lord did call my name and by his word I knew him. Then my Lord betrayed me and with his sword I slew him. Song of the Shield bearer.

Wolfspet -> RE: Non-submissive slaves (4/20/2006 8:29:03 AM)
I am most assuredly not a submissive. Ask anyone who knows me, real time as well as online. At least I am not what the "definition" of submissive seems to be. I do not seek to be molded & controlled. I do not feel this drive to submit. I do not think submission is a inate part of me. I am not, nor will I ever be respectful to someone just because of their orientation. I am not, nor will I ever think of myself as somehow "lesser" because of the role I play in my relationship. I am in a relationship where I am enslaved in a psychologial & emotional way. I do perform "service" to/for him. I do give him the control. Unfortunately, I am the atheis of what the current 'common' definition of submissive is., but then again, I way off in some o the slave definition too, lol. There are a few other threads touching on the subject of Dominant slavery. Perhaps the reason so many of the enslaved women have gotten adamant about not being submissive is the proloferation of commentary that their behavior is somehow wrong because it does not meet the fantasy criteria that is accepted of being a submissive. This is gonna sound weird, and I am trying to articulate it as I go.I am not saying that being a submissve was weak, I am saying I was weak when I was a submissive. I submitted out of fear, yes there was a desire to please, but pleasing behavior was narrowly defined in my mind, and I couldn't understand the part of me that still asserted my independence. Wolf did not use fear. Once the trust started to grow, and I lost my fear, I began to take pride in what I was doing. He encouraged me to utilize the more dominant facets of my personality, in fact he challenged me to. This encouraged a bonding, I no longer "submitted", I just did what seemed to come naturally. As his control grew, he used it less, guiding me to assert my individuality. By encouraging me to be strong, he also bound me in a way I cannot explain. I am caged but free.

CrappyDom -> RE: Non-submissive slaves (4/20/2006 9:23:54 AM)
Some women don't like weak men. So they rail against them and put them into three categories They fight a partner till they give in then call them weak A dominant who makes the mistake of contacting them but sees the reds flag is "too weak to take control" anyone who hasn't contacted them yet is "too afraid and weak" to try This pattern is generally one they have had prior to discovering S&M and woe be to anyone who gets involved with one.

CrappyDom -> RE: Non-submissive slaves (4/20/2006 9:27:23 AM)
Wolfspet, You wrote: quote: This is gonna sound weird, and I am trying to articulate it as I go. Statements don't get much saner.

ayasha -> RE: Non-submissive slaves (4/20/2006 10:07:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub i recently heard this term for the first time coming from a person who claims to be a slave and it was a new term to me. Is there such a thing as a non-submissive slave and if there is such a thing, if someone has a slave who falls in this category or is a slave who would classify themselves as such, i was curious as to how this would work. This particular person who i heard using the term seems to be argumentative, disrespectful, and i do not wish to make a blanket judgement call, this behavior may just be unique to this particular person. Thank you for any insight that you can give me. one is a slave, yet one is not submissive in the workplace. one has been in management in correctional facilities - so if one was submissive at work both the staff and inmates would chew one up and spit one out. A slave has to be strong in order to take care of a Master. A slave has to be able to make decisions and handle things when He is not there to do it, or not able to do it for whatever reason (ill, etc.). one is definitely not argumentative or disrespectful - one is obedient and respectful at all times when with one's Dominant. one submits her will, which at times is not easy - but worth it in every single way. To submit to Him, to feel His Dominance and control - smiles, is what it is all about for this one. one knows other slaves that are very strong-willed women outside of their Master/slave, Dominant/submissive relationship. one hopes this helps - ~ ayasha ~

SirRobsgirl -> RE: Non-submissive slaves (4/20/2006 10:24:05 AM)
okay, this girl's .02 on this. This girl considers herself a slave and not a submissive (and not demeaning ANYONE of any ilk). For this girl, being a submissive means there is a certain amount of choice involved in what one does or will do or allow to be done, Negotiations take place. The opportunity to say no or use a safeword is there. This girl chooses not to be a submissive for those reasons. This girl needs and wants to give COMPLETE and TOTAL control to her One. Although this girl has limits in her mind, they are being discussed with her Sir and, well, when He takes ownership, His limits will be this girl's limits (yes, girl knows this is another topic altogether!). What this girl is trying to say is that as a slave, she is not a submissive, because the element of choice is gone. This girl would never think to be bratty or try to control her Sir. That is just stupidity! What is the point of the relationship at that point? Hope this makes sense. This girl is still rather new to the boards and enjoys reading all different points of view, even those she disagrees with.

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