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Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 2:15:00 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		i recently heard this term for the first time coming from a person who claims to be a slave and it was a new term to me. Is there such a thing as a non-submissive slave and if there is such a thing, if someone has a slave who falls in this category or is a slave who would classify themselves as such, i was curious as to how this would work. This particular person who i heard using the term seems to be argumentative, disrespectful, and i do not wish to make a blanket judgement call, this behavior may just be unique to this particular person. Thank you for any insight that you can give me.
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 2:34:09 PM   
MasterR001


Posts: 76
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline 		I don't understand the term.  I must be missing something.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 2:37:33 PM   
GirlwithBoots


Posts: 8
Joined: 1/25/2006
Status: offline 		The only thing that comes to mind is a rebellious slave. Not quite sure why a Master or Mistress would want a slave like this, but maybe that's what this person was referring to.

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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 2:50:12 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		i don't really understand the term either, to me it sounds like an oxymoron, but when i made that comment, i was told that i was wrong, that someone doesn't need to be a submissive to be a slave, he or she just needs to be obedient. And because i didn't understand the term or the concept is why i am asking if anyone has ever run across anyone else who identifies him or herself as a non-submissive slave.


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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 2:54:36 PM   
slaveofdarkhold


Posts: 124
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline 		This strikes me as odd as well. I'd have to second GirlwithBoots' guess about a rebellious slave, although then we could get into a debate on the definition of slave and whether this is even possible. Perhaps just someone who is into roleplaying the 'disobeying, getting punished/being forced into submission' scenario, rather than actually wanting to serve willingly and submit?
The only other guess I would make would be someone made into a slave against their will, but from the context of what you are saying this is clearly not what the person meant.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 2:54:37 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Well I could imagine if we lived in a society that branded people slaves against their will  there would be some that were unsubmissive, purely because of the fact they were unwilling. Considering Master/slave relationships within bdsm are a conscious choice for people to be involved, initially I would say it doesnt make sense that someone entering into this type of relationship would be arguementative or disrespectful. A slave within the bdsm sense means to me that they are *choosing* to be *submissive* to their partner.

On further thought though, people come with all types of personalities and the path to conscious submission and slavery is a profound one. When one is first starting out they could come up against boundaries, insecurities and vulnerabilities that could see them acting other than submissive. You could also get people who just think "playing submissive" is a bit of fun and have never really touched on the amazing beauty and inner strength it holds and so have to *act out* in ways that they percieve as being *strong* (could see this type of personality being arguementative or disrespectful). The only problem with that I see is them being able to find a Master who wants to put up with that kinda bs.

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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 2:58:33 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

i don't really understand the term either, to me it sounds like an oxymoron, but when i made that comment, i was told that i was wrong, that someone doesn't need to be a submissive to be a slave, he or she just needs to be obedient. And because i didn't understand the term or the concept is why i am asking if anyone has ever run across anyone else who identifies him or herself as a non-submissive slave.


Why would someone who is not submissive want to be in a situation where they have to take orders? 
Say what you will about definitions, if we get into semantics, we need them.

Obedience:  The quality or state of willingly carrying out the wishes of others
Submission:  To yield or surrender (oneself) to the will or authority of another

To me, it sounds like either this person does not want to admit they're submissive or it is not consensual.

Yours,


benji

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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 3:10:38 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline 		I have to agree with Benji. I just don't see how this can make any sense at all. I'd be interested to hear this person's POV on it.

Cin

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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 3:42:24 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Let me give you my bitter two cents here... That is a bunch of shit.  The only reason any 'slave' is allowed to be that way is because the 'Master' is too weak to either demand what he wants or because the 'slave' is allowed to do what she wants as she is really wearing the pants in the relationship, be it emotional (or other) bribery or what have you.  Look at what you wrote.. a non submissive slave??  Thats a Domme who is smart enough to take the cap off her name when topping another Dom. 

What does it mean to be submissive?  Figure that out and you will realize how incredibly stupid that term is, not to mention insulting.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 5:33:37 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your replies. i would also like to say that i agree with what y'all have said. As i said, when i heard the term it did not make any sense to me and seemed like an impossibility, to me the essence of slavery is submission and obedience. Thank you again.

(in reply to puella)
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 5:43:14 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Let me give you my bitter two cents here... That is a bunch of shit.  The only reason any 'slave' is allowed to be that way is because the 'Master' is too weak to either demand what he wants or because the 'slave' is allowed to do what she wants as she is really wearing the pants in the relationship, be it emotional (or other) bribery or what have you.  Look at what you wrote.. a non submissive slave??  Thats a Domme who is smart enough to take the cap off her name when topping another Dom. 

What does it mean to be submissive?  Figure that out and you will realize how incredibly stupid that term is, not to mention insulting.


Yup, sounds like an excuse to indulge in manipulative, chidish behaviour and still get to engage in the thrill of calling yourself slave. I really couldn't call anyone dominant who could justify letting their so-called slave act this way. I would think this kind of behaviour would go against the desire to dominate, not fulfill it.

Cin

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(in reply to puella)
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 5:58:22 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		I think we're jumping to conclusions which may quite well be right, but nowhere has the OP actually described the behaviour of this slave.  Maybe this is the best behaved slave ever, just does not want to call himself submissive.  Maybe it is quite simply that, for any reason on this earth.  Maybe he is the worst slave to the worst Master ever.  Who knows?  But it would be interesting to hear what the OP knows of this slave's behaviour.

Yours,


benji

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(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 6:02:12 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		What makes someone submissive or dominant?  To some, submissive and dominant are personality descriptors and not necessarily a description of their role in a relationship.  I have met some who choose to submit in the context of their intimate relationships, but they are dominant in many other aspects.  In this context I can understand that statement; basically they do not have a submissive personality, but they have chosen to give someone else complete authority over their life. 

If submissive is only a description of your role in a relationship, then I can understand that it doesn’t make much sense.  I see it more as a personality description.  I am not very submissive in many aspects of my life other than my relationship with my Lord.  In fact, my family thinks I am rather bossy and dominant.  I just prefer to give complete authority to the man I am in an intimate relationship with.  I am submissive to my Lord, but I am not submissive in general.

This is just my perception of the term...

Knight's kyra

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(in reply to heartfeltsub)
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 6:06:43 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		kyra,

I will agree with you 100%, and I think if we ask around to see how many subs on here are dominant outside the relationship, we'll find a lot are. But to give yourself a "lifestyle title" (for lack of a better name) of non-submissive slave seems a tad.....????

So it depends on the context.  Good point.

Yours,


benji

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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 6:11:17 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		To answer your question, this person's behavior is at times very argumentative to her Master. i have heard her tell him that what he requires is an inconvenience and will argue with him about doing it.

There is some truth to what Kyra said, this person's personality is more dominant and in relationship to others calls herself a switch, but calls herself a slave in relationship to this Dominant.

When she does argue, she tends to later say she argued because she was not feeling well or something. However she also has stated that anyone who just obeys without question is either stupid or lacks a personality. Both of which i find HIGHLY offensive.


(in reply to gooddogbenji)
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 6:11:37 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful


Yup, sounds like an excuse to indulge in manipulative, childish behavior and still get to engage in the thrill of calling yourself slave.


Exactly... and yes, more to the point.. less to me is the fault of the woman who does this (though more my disdain and bitterness) and more the fault of the Dominant, for he is the one in control, he is the one who is molding, he is the one who is allowing and he is the one who is enabling.

Kick a nasty manipulative, demanding person out  (though it has been my experience that that sort of woman almost always does very well for herself, and perhaps if it happens again and again (or maybe it will only take the one time it really matters), she will stop either calling herself something she is not, and take the responsibility and put in the work to be the best of what she really is.  Or maybe she will realize the beauty, instead of the mockery, in submission and embrace it and learn to give without an emotional price tag... and maybe, just maybe, she will learn something at the hands of the Master.  But is the owner who justifies and enables that behavior and all the havoc it can wreak, and all it may cost.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 6:38:12 PM   
bindtoher


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/8/2006
Status: offline 		met a guy once who took great pride in the fact that he believed he was a slave and that was his destiny??he also stated that he was not a 'natural submissive' and he needed to be 'enslaved' to be obedient
A manipulative player? I believe he was 

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 7:37:22 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		i am not naturally submissive at all,  but that is what makes my slavery-induced obedience much more fulfilling for me. 

i won't use the line that it is better for Master because it is more work for me, that's bunk.   If it were more work for me, we'd both be concerned, it should always get easier to obey as you assume the heart-set and mind-set of the One in Control.

Anyway, point is, personality and basic tendancies such as "born submissive"  "true Dominant" etc don't have much to do with the conscious choice to submit and / or obey.    Like to point out for those that believe..  Satan himself Obeys God.  i wouldn't say he was either born or created submissive.  Also, i doubt his *obedience is pleasing to God.  So obviously there is a whole lot more to the submit / obey dynamic between the people involved:  intent, willingness, appreciation, etc.

[i sincerely hope nobody is offended by my refs to entities not all agree exist, but just for the sake of discussion, please.]

(in reply to bindtoher)
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 8:11:24 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

To answer your question, this person's behavior is at times very argumentative to her Master. i have heard her tell him that what he requires is an inconvenience and will argue with him about doing it.

There is some truth to what Kyra said, this person's personality is more dominant and in relationship to others calls herself a switch, but calls herself a slave in relationship to this Dominant.

When she does argue, she tends to later say she argued because she was not feeling well or something. However she also has stated that anyone who just obeys without question is either stupid or lacks a personality. Both of which i find HIGHLY offensive.


This kind of puts a new twist on things. Personally as a switch I'm not seeing how, in your description, that she claims slavery when she appears to pick and choose what she does. Personally how this Dom hasn't nailed her butt to the wall is beyond me. My last boy as well as one that petitioned me from this sit tried this one...the I'm submissive but on my terms and only when I feel like it. Neither one is allowed in my presence. The scariest part is that both tried almost identical pleas for "can we just be friends" when their demands were met with a response of not just no but ohhhhhh heeeeeeelllllllll NO!!!

So anyway to answer your question no I don't think that a non-submissive slave exsists...this is just a Domme with a supposedly Dominant male as a partner.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
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RE: Non-submissive slaves - 4/19/2006 8:59:17 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		well i for one only submit to those whom i chose to do so. Not saying there is anything wrong with those that will kneel to any Dominate personality, it's just not my thing.

When i admitted to a good friend of mine recently that i was active in this lifestyle he was sure i would be a dominant. *chuckles* i tried that once, it is soo not in me to be so. But....

Outside the home, in my career I am a very in control, take charge person. i've been in management positions from the age of 18. I demand alot from my staff but am willing to work as hard if not harder by their side. I have little patience with base stupidity or laziness and my staff know that and strive not to disappoint me.

would I ever say i'm a non submissive slave?? lol god no. like previously stated, it's an oxy-moron and doesn't really make sense.

I would say I am an career orientated, amibtious and successful person that loves to shrugg off the weight of the world and hand over control to the one she loves and trusts completely. (when i manage to find one that is)

i don't feel that my professional life makes me any less submissive, it may actually help bring out that part of me more. But that is jsut me. Each persons chosen roles in life enhance certain qualities with in them. People don't fit into nice little categories and "slots". Wouldn't it make life easier if they did?

"hmmm i want a someone that loves sex, housework and getting spanked... ok i need row 7 drawer 6. ohh perfect" *chuckles*

*grins* i love sex and spankings, personally i would like a slave of my own that loves to do housework and nothing else *giggles* But that's pretty unlikely to happen.

In this day and age i think everyone is too eager to "label" themselves and everyone else. Yes, i understand we need to have some lables or there would be mass confusion, but we can't expect everyone to "fit" the label they give themselves. They are just trying to give an area in which they fit.

Some submissives do things with their partner that would never accur to another to even attempt. Personally it would never even cross my mind to hit or fight back when with a Dom unless i felt i was in jeapordy and honestly if i had any concerns i wouldn't be there in the first place.But it works well for other couples, so what the heck. *g*

Ok, i'm babbling way to long here so to wrap it up i'll just say this. Most people act or react different in certain situations. We need to have multi-fauceted personality quailties to survive in this world. if i was submissive in every aspect of my life i would have been screwed. but that's just me. We do what we must to survive and if you can fully accept yourself for who you are and not worry about what others want to classify you as, you are much farther ahead. I've been told many times i'm not a "real" submissive. but then again they never asked any of the ones i've served either so how the hell would they know?

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