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RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 6:11:42 AM   
samboct


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For anybody interested in the facts here- there's an article in the NY Times today describing the actions of Daisy Khan, a woman involved in planning the mosque, with a rabbi, Joy Levitt, who gave her some advice back in 2005. Since the conversation centered around having enough parking for 500 strollers, it's pretty safe to say that the folks planning this mosque have been completely blindsided. Also, the reason the building that houses the mosque is so large is because it's planned to have commercial space as well- in fact most of the building is intended to be commercial space. Makes sense given the prices of land in that neck of the woods.

We've seen how the wacko right has dressed up hatred against Hispanics as a problem with illegal immigrants and racism against blacks as vitriol against Obama by calling TARP "his" bailout, while conveniently neglecting the three decades of neocon policies that led to such a debacle- why start worrying about facts now?

I think this tempest in a teapot about this mosque is merely more Republican (or Tea Party) intolerance for the non-white, non-Christian folks who've been gaining demographically on them, and the crap about Muslims building monuments to victory in the form of mosques is just laughable....I mean come on, people...even Bloomberg got this one right.


Cheers,

Sam

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 6:58:38 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: THELADY
by the same token its kind of hard to ignore the president of iran when he gives a speech at the u.n. condeming and wishing anilation on america, and jews. I am not saying he represents all muslims.....but I have not heard many muslims stand up and condem the radicals.

You haven't heard any of the naysayers because that tends not to get reported in the American press, who seem more interested in scaremongering than anything else. The Ayatollah's sock puppet doesn't even speak for the majority of shi'ites, never mind islam as a whole.
Think about it: most of the muslim population of your country moved there to get away from dickheads like that in the first place. If they wanted sharia law and a government who stopped assimilating cultural influences in the fourteenth century, they'd still be in Pakistan or the middle east.

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 7:24:48 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: THELADY
I am not saying he represents all muslims.....but I have not heard many muslims stand up and condem the radicals.

It was a pretty big news event, I'm surprised you missed it. Just google Iran riot.





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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 8:01:58 AM   
domiguy


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She tried. She was unable to spell google or Iran.

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 10:03:27 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

She tried. She was unable to spell google or Iran.

Now that's cheating... no fair fulfilling your own prophecy!

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I personally don't see personal attacks lessening.

K.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 10:04:08 AM   
subrob1967


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Isn't free speech grand?

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 12:45:41 PM   
Aswad


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edit: post deleted.


< Message edited by Aswad -- 8/12/2010 12:54:06 PM >


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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 1:57:51 PM   
joether


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Jon Stewart puts it best...

Still, if conservatives are as angry over 9/11/2001, why are they not angry over 4/19/1995? Oh....thats cus they agree with the militia-mentality. The militia's political viewpoint is so close to conservatives as to be considered...one and the same.

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 2:10:03 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Jon Stewart puts it best...

Still, if conservatives are as angry over 9/11/2001, why are they not angry over 4/19/1995? Oh....thats cus they agree with the militia-mentality. The militia's political viewpoint is so close to conservatives as to be considered...one and the same.


More evidence that Jon Stewart doesnt have a clue what "conservatives" think.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 2:13:12 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: THELADY

a couple of people have said my post were full of misconceptions......prehaps someone like aswad, (I am assuming by his name and post that he is muslim) could clarify my misconceptions?


Let me start with your first misconception:

I am neither a muslim, nor of Arab ethnicity.

However, I am familiar with a wide range of religions, often including their sacred texts, theologies and history.

The religion of Islam, like the religion of Christianity, is a faith in whose name unbelievers have justified any number of misdeeds that contradict the tenets of the faith. People with an agenda, and no respect for religion, are always keen to seize on the power of religion as a vessel or vehicle to propagate their own agenda. St. Augustine of the 'Holy Roman Catholic Church' instituted the Christian doctrine of Holy War (in Arabic: jihad) way back when. Pope Innocent III is the one who sanctioned torture in eliciting confessions from heretics. The Albigensian Crusade eradicated a huge group of Christian Gnostic believers in northern regions of Europe to preserve power.

Is that the Christianity you are familiar with?

If not, what makes you think 9/11 is the Islam that good muslims are familiar with?

As for men, women and sexuality, the principal teaching of Islam, as I read it, is that men are responsible for the long term happiness and well being of the women and children in their care, and that women and children shall obey the man of the house in deference to his responsibilities. If he does not attend his responsibilities, his wife (or wives; multiple wives are allowed if, and only if, he can provide for them all) may divorce him. Both genders shall wear modest clothing, which I would personally interpret as being a question of what constitutes modesty in the culture of the area where you are living. See the music video to "Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini", then go to the beach for commentary¹.

What you associate with Islamic views on women are the cultures of Afghanistan and Somalia.

Incidentally, you can blame the Taliban on yourself. The US essentially made them².

Health,
al-Aswad.

¹ Facebook refused to let my dear put up my first sketch of her, in order to protect people from indecency. It is a pencil sketch outline that happens to have the vague suggestion of a nipple in it, because it is necessary for the framing, since she is lying down in that drawing. The drawing has a couple of dozen lines in it, all in all. Seem a bit excessive, perhaps?

² The Mujahadeen were trained and funded by the USA in order to fight against the USSR.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 2:17:58 PM   
Lucylastic


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Aswad, I dont always agree with you, but it is so wonderful to see you back posting with your usual panache.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 2:19:59 PM   
Archer


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joether No large difference here.

I don't recall any christian churches on any continent supporting the bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal Building.
I do recall the images of muslims dancing in the streets celebrating the fall of the WTC Buildings, as well as hearing mosques telling us it was our own fault.

I recall no christian churches that didn't condemn the act of bombing the Federal Building
I recall many mosques where the message was you got what you deserved on 9/11


Now that said I find the idea repulsive , but I don't believe the government should be doing anything to stop it from happening.

I do not believe them when they claim it is a monument to tolerance and respect, for the victims. The Name of the mosque that is supposed to be part of the islamic center is the Cordoba Mosque named after the one in Spain. Cordoba Mosque in Spain is a monument to the moorish (Islamic) Conquest of Spain. Built on the ruins of a Church.

Even with that belief I still believe the Government should not stop this, I do believe that they (the Islamic community there ) should listen to the way this is causing hurt and comming across as a poke in the eye to the local non muslim community.

I am not adverse at all to Good for the Goose Good for the Gander type efforts, approval of other buildings that counter the percieved message should be allowed as well. A Jewish Center, or any other protest building.



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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 2:29:44 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

She tried. She was unable to spell google or Iran.

Now that's cheating... no fair fulfilling your own prophecy!

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I personally don't see personal attacks lessening.

K.






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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 3:03:14 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
I do recall the images of muslims dancing in the streets celebrating the fall of the WTC Buildings, as well as hearing mosques telling us it was our own fault.

All footage from Palestine, of course. Now whyever would Palestinians have a beef with America?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 3:34:46 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Aswad, I dont always agree with you, but it is so wonderful to see you back posting with your usual panache.


Panache?

Nice to see you, too.

Health,
al-Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 3:46:03 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I recall no christian churches that didn't condemn the act of bombing the Federal Building


I recall some American churches supporting the execution of gay men and women in Uganda.

quote:

I recall many mosques where the message was you got what you deserved on 9/11


I recall many muslims telling me they were horrified at the 9/11 actions and grieved at the loss of life.

I recall local muslim leaders denouncing terrorism as a way to express grievances in the papers around here.

quote:

Now that said I find the idea repulsive , but I don't believe the government should be doing anything to stop it from happening.


That is to your credit. I am impressed.

Not many are able to stand by important principles when the consequences are offensive to them.

Health,
al-Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 4:00:58 PM   
Vendaval


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Fast Reply -

Does the current Pope Benedict XVI speak for all Christians or even all Catholics?
How about the current Archbishop of Canterbury, Most Reverend Rowan Williams, does he speak for all members of the Anglican Church?


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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 4:03:37 PM   
pahunkboy


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I will pray for you.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 4:55:33 PM   
Owner59


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You`d think that bush invading Iraq and killing possibly a hundred times more innocent Muslims than killed on 9/11 would have satisfied the knuckle draggers ,....................but no.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: N.Y. bus ad showing mosque, burning WTC towers OK'd - 8/12/2010 5:16:38 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

You`d think that bush invading Iraq and killing liberating possibly a hundred times more innocent Muslims than killed on 9/11 would have satisfied the liberal knuckle draggers ,....................but no.


FYP

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Profile   Post #: 80
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